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Topic: REFLECTION documentary 1978, FEATURING MIKE'S MUSIC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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Posted: Sep. 14 2011, 20:48

First of all I would like to thank Chris Ibberson who most kindly linked the You Tube video that he spotted of the Reflection documentary here some weeks back, I have found this a true insight into some of the features of Mikes works, and as it has been over 3 decades since I saw this I am ashamed to say I had forgotten it existed so thank you again Chris, you really found a gem here.

The reasons I felt it would be better placed here are:-
(1) It is a video.
(2) It deserves to have a place of high visibility (as if it had not been for my bumping it I do not think where it was it would of lasted a week on the top page).
(3) It is should IMHO be of timeless interest to all who may like to refer to it in order to hear the unique arrangement of Mikes music to this stunningly enlightening film (the music fits it so well it is perfect almost as if the music was written & performed for it ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm5iMuJwm8Y&feature=player_embedded

Another link readers may wish to take a look at is the featured Cathedral:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres_Cathedral


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Posted: Sep. 15 2011, 05:18

Back in 2005, EeToN posted here a list of the tracks in Reflections
(We now know that the alternate versions of Platinum and Ommadawn are "Piano Improvisation" and "Ommadawn lost Demo".


"A while ago I wrote a lot about this video (in Hungarian). I insert the time table here:

 Start / End   Title                     Official release info    Section
===================================================================================
01. 00:06-01:15  The Path                  B-side of Shine (1986) 00:00-01-10
02. 01:28-06:08  First Excursion           Boxed (1976)           00:00-04:44
03. 08:16-10:49  ?                         -
04. 10:49-11:19  ?                         -
05. 11:51-13:34  Ommadawn Pt. 1 (alt.)     Ommadawn (1975)        00:38-01:15/03:12-04:10
06. 14:24-15:50  Platinum Pt. 2 (alt.)     Platinum (1979)        04:14-04:38
07. 16:07-17:30  ?                         -
08. 18:07-19:27  Ommadawn Pt. 1 (alt.)     Ommadawn (1975)        08:17-09:00
09. 20:53-22:49  Incantations Pt. 4 (alt.) Incantations (1978)    00:00-01:43/14:00-14:20
10. 23:03-24:52  Woodhenge                 Platinum (1979)        00:00-02:08
11. 26:06-28:56  Incantations Pt. 4 (alt.) Incantations (1978)    12:37-14:40
12. 30:46-31:57  Incantations Pt. 4 (alt.) Incantations (1978)    12:17-13:34
13. 32:47-35:30  Incantations Pt. 4 (alt.) Incantations (1978)    13:19-14:40
14. 36:07-38:14  ?                         -
15. 39:28-40:14  ?                         -
16. 40:23-41:49  ?                         -
17. 41:40-45:01  Incantations Pt. 3 (alt.) Incantations (1978)    02:12-04:18
18. 45:08-50:10  "First Incantation"       -
19. 49:30-51:20  The Path                  B-side of Shine (1986) 00:00-01:44
20. 51:09-54:00  Making Way                Incantations (1978)    08:06-08:46
21. 54:03-55:23  Portsmouth                Boxed (1976)           00:00-01:20
22. 55:25-57:09  Chartres Maze             -
===================================================================================

"alt" means an alternative/demo version of the track.
"


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Mike Oldfield - Blog d'une passion
http://www.mike-oldfield.net
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Posted: Sep. 20 2011, 14:41

Many thanks to the above poster for providing a very useful reference on the music contained in the above documentary.  Plus I feel his web blog if I can call it that? is an interesting site to see:- http://mike-oldfield.over-blog.com/

A few videos of a similar type

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2EiI-UfsE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oSePXRbW9o&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=e9MwNm0gXd8&feature=fvwp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQoJ8KQOqFA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2bAlIK4KkE&feature=related

COULD HE BE RIGHT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JSn6W1YZio&feature=related

(Ψ/PHI may well be embedded in the Game Tr3s Luna's if so it may of been placed there in it's programing at the original starting point by & in de"sign" Ψ)


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Posted: Sep. 21 2011, 15:28

ARE MIKE'S WORKS REFLECTED IN REFLECTIONS?

If so how many and which & also from whence did these views come i.e. was Mike aware of the topics in this video & their relevance prior to being involved in it's creation or did he purely learn from it?
One thing I think we must take into consideration is that during Mike's early life was the period of the awakening of the Hippy era when the youth was waking up to cosmological ideas like the realisation of the fact that we and everything around us is made from star dust & similar ideas that were filtering through to the masses, especially those who mixed in the circles of university students & what were often labeled drop outs or the people creating certain types of music especially some folk & popular music of the times.

I think a good example of Mike having a grasp of these ideas prior to his involvement in the documentary is the album Children of the Sun which is a very deeply symbolic idea for the time & thus may point to Mike's music being made with deeper message meaning than purely music for music's sake or financial reward.  If we consider this possibility then in order to find out what Michael's beliefs might have contained or been influenced by at this time I feel it would be good to take a look at those who had been around him and what their views were at the time, this part of his life has much mist around it but it may well be the era that holds the answers.

I do believe that Michael's life & his works are not one of a frivolous nature i.e. he is not at all happy unless he feels he is involved in creating work which contains a deep and meaningful message, in my mind Michael is the Michael Angelo of music he is a true artist with highly symbolic Da Vinci or philosophical ideas within his works.  Some of the problems in bringing these ideas & questions to a forum like this are that this is not like writing a book were the reader will start at page one and hopefully read to the last, i.e. if you read a post on another topic you may well arrive at this post & say to yourself "oh no it is that person with those weird ideas, they are the ones who think Mike is GOD" well first let me assure you this is certainly not the case, I/we are purely interested in looking at & discovering what Michael has been encoding in his works & via a understanding of this as a whole trying to reveal or work out what it is that he believes in so deeply that he wishes to share it with us.

In my eyes & in the eyes of those who have been involved in working on this so far, we see an awful lot of deeply symbolic messages in his work & I know that it can be extremely disturbing if you are a fan of this maestro, out there on your own wondering if you are all alone in what you see, so this is one of my main drives in bringing our views into the open so you will know you are not alone in your wondering as we were before finding each other.  Readers of this who do not wonder in this way about the possibility of the maestro's work having any deeper meaning than you already are sure you understand, this post is not written for you please just accept this or open your mind to the possibility that there may be more to it than you already thought you knew & read on with an open mind.

The aim of all that we try to put before you is to point out the features of his work that one may at first glance have missed the meaning of or not spotted or have ever come across, maybe some things you have seen have left you in confusion, or you did not know that there could be deeper meanings to some of the images you have seen. Possibly you have missed some of the things that would only be noticed if you go frame by frame or note by note through his whole work as we have done on the visual side & then added all these things together.  Individually some things make little sense but the whole picture is a totally different view.

We can not be sure of what Michael is showing to us in that there is so much & we may not have yet noticed everything, maybe the things that fill in the holes are yet to come in order to see the whole or fully understand the all but we do feel we can say that all of what we have seen could have the following possibilities SO FAR:-
( 1 )  IT IS ALL COINCIDENTAL.  Very unlikely but some things could be explained this way.
( 2 )  We have misinterpreted some of the symbolism & thus we have come to the wrong conclusion, yet in most circumstances we will be only suggesting what we feel are the most likely possible conclusions & therefore you can draw your own if any.
( 3 )  All Michael's work does have deep meaning but he is deluded and therefore answers to mysteries do not stand in succession in his works or if this is not so that he really does have a bag of secrets and if so has he already shown to us what is in it but have yet to understand or believe in it.
( 4 )  If what he shows us has meaning and truth then is he just a wise & gifted mysterious teacher or does he point us to believe that he feels the gifts he has are God given does he feel\think he has a divine gift, or do we believe he has?
( 5 )  These things could all be a clever, elaborate hoax maybe he is playing a joke on us in his lyrics, artwork & games implying there is a bag of secrets just to keep us interested & guessing this is of course a possibility that we must consider yet I do not see Mike in this way so I doubt this is the answer.
( 6 )  Is Michael attempting to point us towards the God he has found and answers to life's mysteries that he sees in science or do we feel he has been guided to these answers by a heavenly source & do we believe him or in him, i.e. should we put our faith in his knowing the truth.

IN BRIEF:- 1T IS  1,  COINCIDENTAL  2,  MISINTERPRETED  3,  IT HAS MEANING OR NO MEANING (i.e. there is or is not a bag of secrets).  4,  MIKE IS WISE! or a FOOL, he is a man who either thinks he is just a normal man with thoughts to share or maybe he thinks or knows he is in touch with something divine (& has been given a divine message) or he is unsure what he is & this could explain his troubles, i.e.  why he has been so disturbed and secretive in and about his works & life, laughing off awkward questions and not liking to be asked for reasons WHY!.  5,  JOKE or\& EVIL HOAX, I really hope this is not so.
6,  RELIGIOUS or SCIENCE or both & if both does what he shows us point to belief in GOD or to our own GoOoD as in the good in us all, or does he hint at a divine internal or external intervention he wants us to realise is to come & shows it to us in the highly prophetic images that we see in the Let There Be Light video, which he clarifies in the video he made about it's creation & what we see in it, i.e. the great awakening of the human mind, that brings into being our demons & angels.

To sum up:- If after reading and looking at all we write here and in other topics about his work you do not see that any of it has meaning to you in the way we present it, then this will mean one of these things;-
1,  I have failed to be clear in what I showed you. 2,  You have not been in the right mind in order to see.  3,  There was nothing there to see in the first place & Mike was wrong in having these beliefs.  4,  We, you think, have missed his point & you see another.  In the end all these are in our minds an acceptable outcome as I and the others in the group are not here to say you must believe what we suggest the meanings might be, we are only wishing to point out what there is to see and consider & suggest some of the ways in which it may be interpreted or might all fit together.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Sep. 21 2011, 18:29

As far as I know, Mike is only involved with Reflection on a musical level - he supplied some alternate mixes and (at the time) unreleased pieces to the filmmakers so they could use them as a soundtrack. He is not involved in any other way with the film and its content. I don't believe that Reflection has any particular meaning, and mostly I don't believe that any meaning that Reflection my have is connected to Mike Oldfield.

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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Posted: Sep. 22 2011, 15:03

I to the best of my knowledge never wrote that Mike had done anything other than make the music for the documentary.

In a search I came across this & it gives the date of 1976 as the date this doc\film was made, not 1978 the release date?

http://amarok.ommadawn.net/mike/discog/extras/raretracks.htm


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Posted: Sep. 22 2011, 22:33

In a post I made above I suggested that some of what we see in the Reflection video might be ideas that Mike went on to include in his works or he might of already had these views and hence this was why he was happy to be so evolved in a low budget production even though his time was valuable & he certainty did not need the publicity that a low budget production of this nature could\would bring him & his music.

The following are things that I noticed that maybe are reflected in Mikes works, i.e. in song lyrics & album or song titles, his artwork, videos & games, in words & images including symbols.

The first thing that struck me was the mention of the Origin which features in the computer game Tr3s Luna's.
Next the importance placed on the new day or DAWN, as in OmmaDAWN.
The Earth-Fire-Wind & Water or Elements link in his works + how often water features throughout his music etc.
Then Birds, as these also feature heavily in his lyrics, i.e. "the two can fly" etc, also in graphics too.

Spirals appear on the cover artwork of MO's 5 Miles Out (5MO) if you look at the somewhat strange image of a dog you will see them here:- http://www.argiers.com/images/lpsB/UKFiveMilesOut_02_Backcover.jpg
in this picture you will notice a hand and on it where the finger nails should be are 4 spirals & spirals are significant in most religions and also science if you check out the other videos above and then look a bit further you will eventually find out what I mean, Yet they are not finger nails!  If you take a look at the back of your own hand then turn it over and look very carefully you will see in your finger prints spirals, your unique code.
+
Whilst you have this picture in front of your eyes you may also notice the anchor this is a religious sign & of course dog is God in reverse!  Then there are the two sets of trees that we saw in the reflections video.  There are also some flowers on what might be the thumb & rear end of the dog\God and these may well be Mike's birth flowers which are the Lily of the valley,  This could be highly significant as the lily of the valley is also known as the Christ rose http://www.google.co.uk/search?....st+rose
Note the following link has a meaning very special indeed  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_of_the_Valley by the way I am not blind I can see that the flowers are blue but then so are some varieties of the lily & the rose of Sharon too, the Hibiscus does have a large stamen, however they could just be Blue bells.
+
There are 5 further features here that may also be of note the two portholes one to a golden background with something on it & the other one white.  Then the 4 diamond\lozenge or Rhombus shapes one of which looks as if it is in a door or a gate & all are religeous symbols, then you may notice a ladder or stair way that seems out of place!  Plus a sun that is setting or rising yet we see most of it's whole face with a hole, a holy sun! what could that mean? with only two beams\rays coming from it! WHY TWO?  lastly the house with two windows & two faces but I sadly think this race is now run.

4;30 the same type of 5 fingered leaf that we see in the Wind Chimes video.
7:40 a 4 pointed tetrahedron that is a fundamental shape & building block for all life so could this explain the sign that could be a 4 as in TB sign 4.
14:00 Music Of the Spheres,  15:xx (approx) Mercury the messenger of the gods! more MOTS.
17:xx  ORDER we hear this in Amarok or MOaarrkk (2 by 2) at min 15:00 + 15:14 & 24:33.
18:40 Shells we see these on the cover of the Millennium BELL.
20:xx Tree of life in the Wind Chimes video?.
23:30 Clocks\Time we see also on the cover of MB, yet distorted and all read five past the hour (zer0?) Mike's star sign Taurus is at 5 past the zer0 hour! or 12 point zer0 position on a clock (see min 43:xx).
25:XX COSMOS + STARS or staz this is all over his works.
26:44 RED INDIANS again this appears in many places.
27:30 THE MOON this is all over the face of his music.
31:xx WOODHENGE and stone circles as above in his games etc.
38:xx geometry & churches + their windows feature in videos & also what looks to me very much like stained glass church (ROSE as in risen?) windows are to be seen in the game MaestrO  that MO made. An example of it can be seen here in the topic on this forum under Maestro assorted images in the third post by MVR Superstar http://tubular.net/forums....;t=8755
Has anyone else noticed the old mans only eye is one of those stained glass things

Click to enlarge image

PLUS HERE http://tubular.net/forums....;t=8020


NOW AN INTERESTING BIT
52:37 we start to hear some strange lyrics! I hear the words:- "MAKE WAY" then at 52:57 MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES" then at 53:19 it repeats "MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES  ESSAYS" and again at 53:40 "MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES   ESSAYS" (or could be "THEY SAY") then it carries on with "GET IT OVER" then "MAKE WAY".  How strange presuming that these are the right lyrics then who are the strange ones he is telling people to make way for and who is writing essays and trying to get something over & to who ??? over to you I1.
PS right at the end birds singing just like the end of TB!!!.


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Posted: Sep. 22 2011, 23:09

Quote (0 @ 1(I1)+Sep. 22 2011, 22:33)
NOW AN INTERESTING BIT
52:37 we start to hear some strange lyrics! I hear the words:- "MAKE WAY" then at 52:57 MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES" then at 53:19 it repeats "MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES  ESSAYS" and again at 53:40 "MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES   ESSAYS" (or could be "THEY SAY") then it carries on with "GET IT OVER" then "MAKE WAY".  How strange presuming that these are the right lyrics then who are the strange ones he is telling people to make way for and who is writing essays and trying to get something over & to who ??? over to you I1.
PS right at the end birds singing just like the end of TB!!!.

A harbinger, I1, like the "Book to Shake the World" in the Coldplay song. Should be a collaborative effort, if possible, with endorsement and acknowledgment, to ensure the best possible light, as is customary between friends.
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Posted: Oct. 31 2011, 01:11

Quote (nightspore @ Sep. 23 2011, 06:09)
Quote (0 @ 1(I1)+Sep. 22 2011, 22:33)
NOW AN INTERESTING BIT
52:37 we start to hear some strange lyrics! I hear the words:- "MAKE WAY" then at 52:57 MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES" then at 53:19 it repeats "MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES  ESSAYS" and again at 53:40 "MAKE WAY FOR THE STRANGE ONES   ESSAYS" (or could be "THEY SAY") then it carries on with "GET IT OVER" then "MAKE WAY".  How strange presuming that these are the right lyrics then who are the strange ones he is telling people to make way for and who is writing essays and trying to get something over & to who ??? over to you I1.
PS right at the end birds singing just like the end of TB!!!.

A harbinger, I1, like the "Book to Shake the World" in the Coldplay song. Should be a collaborative effort, if possible, with endorsement and acknowledgment, to ensure the best possible light, as is customary between friends.

Nightspore I am not sure exactly what you mean by what you have written above that I have quoted.

A further thing that has dawned on me in reviewing this post is that the hand on the dog\GOD image on the cover of 5 Miles Out (5MO Mike Oldfield's initials MO) could be in representation of the hand of man reaching out to GOD & maybe being touched as the position of the fingers is on top of dog\GOD image in the picture.

So on to some questions I have been asked by email:-

The answer to why one may consider the dog\GOD idea is mainly but not holy & souly (wholly & solely) that the dog image has a two holes in it, one is with a pure white background the other gold  (as a member has pointed out) the gold one has on it what could be considered as a visual representation of sound waves or the voice of GOD?  Therefore this is what might lead one to think that the image is HOLY.

I should also say that a further test of logic would be to reverse the idea and ask what is the most likely theory in asking does it make more sense to us if the dog remains a dog? & why would the image of a dog amongst these other images fit better than if the true meaning was GOD?.

A further sugestion put forward by a member is that they also see a representation of the ancient Egyptian God\deity Thoth in the picture this if I am right in my interpretation of what I think the person is suggesting, is what one can see if you looks at the dogs head & the cliff face with the anchor on it as forming the beak of a bird or of the ibis like shape thus a representation of this GOD.  This person also makes the connection between the sun being drawn in such a way that it touches the dog/Gods head, and this is very interesting because this fits nicely with what another has said about the sun God Ra-Thoth connection that was put forward to me some months ago by another member of the group.

To those suggesting that they see that the coast line forms a reversed letter G I can see what you mean but to me this could just be coincidence. Another member here has also pointed out to me that they to see an M pattern in this artwork along with an O shape in the sun & along with the five fingers they suggest a theory that this spells out 5MO the initials of the album
I have also had it pointed out to me that there are what the writer calls a bunch of grapes illustrated on one of the fingers (THE ONE THAT TOUCHES THE HOUSE!!;) & they suggest it may be a reference to wine, the only comment I can make with regard to this is that they may be grapes but I could not say for sure that this is so, however grapes I do believe are said to be food fit for Gods or was it kings? yet I/we could be wrong as always. Sorry Mr. Writer I can not give you a clearer answer.

To the person who pointed out that it is a image of a right hand, I can only say yes if the spirals are supposed to be finger nails this would be so but if they are finger prints then it would be a left hand we see.
Yes you may be right the stairway/ladder, it could be Jacob's ladder, as this would not be the only time we see this or it's like in his works of which one example might be the bridge to paradise amongst others.
see link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob's_Ladder

Regarding the step hill that is shown with the house on it's slope, yes it is a strange depiction and when it comes two the two people in the windows this is another story that as I have said before I will hope to tell one day but you might be right although I never before saw the trees as olive as to me the tall one does not look right ! yet as you say this may well be what a wild or untendered olive might look like & if so you might have a link to the mound of olives as you put it but what would that mean I wonder?  One thing I did not take note of before are the group of yet another 5 round grape like objects on this mound\beacon, does anyone have any idea?.


Please understand that this could be all just seeing faces in clouds but remember that these are not clouds at which we are looking, the picture is one that Mike agreed or maybe even picked out himself to have included on the cover of his album so I feel we should look in great detail at it as he may wish us to do so and maybe he also wants us to understand what he or it means!!

Thank you for all the questions & suggestions plus I must also congratulate the people who found my encrypted ID & email address  on the wisdom you have shown in working out how to make direct contact with us.
I can only presume that you are the ones who out of the many who have viewed this topic that have actually spent the time in reading it and above all observed the Reflections video.

Sadly the Reflections documentary which since it was put up here by Chris in the general discussions tab & was then added here to hopefully give it the max chance of being seen has only according to You Tube gained another 130 viewings,  so out of the 609 views it has had here & the 246 viewings it has had in it's original posting that has now sadly fallen to page 3 on Gen Dis, this would lead one to feel that out of nearly 1,000 viewings only 100 or so members & guests at maximum have bothered to watch the documentary & this I feel is a real shame.

Well hopefully that has covered every thing if anyone feels I have not fully given them an answer that they are happy with or if I have missed anyone please contact me again or better still join the forum & air your views to everyone here if you have not done so already, OK I can understand your fear of the type of ridicule some members dish out here but sticks & stones they do not have a hand to throw & remember words can never hurt you, especially if UNTRUE!! so please come forward & post in the light & not email me in the shade unless you have to.

Thanks again & please understand that I have not mean fully ignored anyone's questions & I will go on hopefully to answer you all in the fullness of time in the various topics in which you questioned me or where I feel it is best to place an answer, in some cases this may be by email not on forum if I feel the answer is not on topic.

Lastly I think I may have an answer to the two sun rays this could also be signifying the number five as in five to the zero hour of twelve o'clock this and the time 12:05 seems to play a fairly major role in his work along with what he calls zero hour!!!
STAY HAPPY I1...


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L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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