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Topic: Original Mix< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
GMOVJ Offline




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Posted: July 18 2001, 08:08

Hi all,

This is not another topic about what are the differences between Old an New mix, boxed mix, original mix etc...
/\/\arcus Junglas did a very good job on his web site (http://members.xoom.com/m_junglas/rarecomp/comp.html).


My questions are :
- Knowing that Mike decide to make another mix to improve HR and knowing that New mix is closer to Mike's mind ('add instrument for wrong reason'), was he right or wrong when he decide to make another mix ?

- Which one do you - fans - prefear ?

IMHO, I think Mike was right, because HRNMix IS what he wanted. But I prefear HROM.

I know this 'pro and cons' topic is surely redundant with some old Amarok discussions, but I would like to know your opinion.

Cheers
GMOVJ

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Cheers,
GMOVJ
[URL=http://tubular.fodplanet.com]http://tubular.fodplanet.com[/URL] - The french speaking mailing list
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Dervish_D Offline




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Posted: July 19 2001, 11:19

One aim in writing music can be to try and find out a CLEAR picture of what you felt, experienced, like or dislike.
Under circumstances it is important for the composer himself that he can identify with every happening that occurs in his music. He is absolutely aware of why there is this snare drum at exactly this place or why there is this climax at exactly that moment!
If you listen closely to both versions of Hergest Ridge you will notice that one version is a lot more "quite", "sensitive", "straight" and "clearer". The one that has more instruments and more complexity (as many call it) in it is also the one which leaves me surprised at times and at parts makes me feel disturbed by what happens.

The beginning of Part one leads me to a "beautiful and soothing landscape" and I begin to "explore my surrounding" as the bass guitar begins to play its arpeggios.
One version now has an surprising and loud outbreak as if I would have discovered a beautiful lake or a meddow full of flowers.
Then suddenly the music leaves this super-beautiful discovery behind as if it was nothing special (=when the trumpet starts playing). Again we have this soothing landscape and then we have a climax again?!?! Why? Another discovery? The first one was not "beautiful enough" to "capture my attention", how could this second. More over, it is IMO(!!!) just a loud sound, it lacks contrasts and a certain move...

I regard it as more interesting, as the other version does, to keep me "wandering around", "watching the birds" (=the guitar that forms a countermelody) or makes me feel more familiar with the new world I just entered. Then the climax happens but at the same time it marks the beginning of a completely new episode of my way through this countryside. (=new instruments, sometimes the music "paints" darker pictures, "Something might be wrong in this world?")

This is only one example why Hergest Ridge (vinyl) is often indirect and uncertain with what happens. Some instrument parts are meaningless they make it harder for to notice what the point is. They are merely added to create a more "bombastic" sound.

Even the "thunderstorm" in Part two has a different influence on my feelings without the singing and the guitar improvisation. The repitions make the message clear and direct - anxiousness, stress, madness - when will this end?!

One super-advantageous aspect about music is that everyone can have his own associations with it. Nothing is predistined. And thus of course do I understand every other opinion about the two Hergest Ridge mixes. I know that many dislike the CD version.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: July 22 2001, 02:05

I generally prefer the remix...

I find some bits of the original really a bit lacking in subtlety. There's a particular bit that stick in my memory where Mike re-used the idea of the 'taped motor drive amplifier organ chord' - this is, the slidy noise that raises in pitch slowly. It had a great effect on Tubular Bells, but somehow it wasn't done as carefully on Hergest Ridge and ends up just sounding rather bad...
I also find the way that the original's 'thunderstorm' section drops in level from the build up to it a little strange.

There are some great bits to the original mix as well. The original has a few nice little guitar countermelodies running in some sections that add a little something to it.

I have to say though, that at the end of the day it's the remix I choose to listen to. Maybe that's just because it's more familiar, but really, I believe Mike didn't do such an evil act when he remixed Hergest Ridge...
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GMOVJ
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Posted: Feb. 07 2003, 10:36

Hi !
Where is the Marcus comparison please ?
It was "http://members.nbci.com/m_junglas/rarecomp/comp.html" but it doesn't work anoymore...

Cheers
GMOVJ
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Man In The Rain Offline




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Posted: Feb. 07 2003, 20:47

The original mix really does sound a tad crude and rushed, I think Mike was right to remix it. And note that on CD pressings, they all use the remixed version - Mike obviously doesn't like the original much. As has already been noted, it seemed to be a little unsubtle.

And anyway, this way we get two different versions. What could be better  :D

Ollie


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Hergest Ridge 165 - Ommadawn 038 - Incantations 243
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Fox Offline




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Posted: Oct. 12 2003, 21:51

I'd like to hear the original mix.  Does anyone know where I can find it?  I heard emule has it, but the DL links are unresponsive.  Is it included in one of the larger files?

I'd just like to hear it for myself.  Any pointers for where (how) to obtain it?
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2003, 11:42

Two-folded answer... :)

@ GMOVJ: I can't really tell what went through Mike's mind while remixing HR, so I've no idea if he was right or wrong. ;) But he said that the reason why he did it is that he didn't like the way the original mix turned out, and I tend to believe him. My preference goes to the remix, though, because it is richer in instruments. I don't heard them 'muddled' (as LivingForever says in another topic) at all.

@ Korgscrew: Actually the organ slide is one of the bits I like best in the original mix. I don't think it's that bad.


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Watcher of the skies Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2003, 13:37

sadly,i only own the HDCD remaster (which don't sound so well in my opinion)   :/

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Fox Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2003, 20:31

BTW--I haven't dipped into rarity downloads for quite some time (Pasqal's, or someone's, old site was where I DLed mine, and HRom wasn't there).

Just need a pointer for where to go.
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Fox Offline




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Posted: Oct. 16 2003, 08:33

After hearing the original mix (thanks, everyone), I can understand why Mike remixed it.  The original sounds crude in places, but I think it's way more interesting than the remix.

He should've kept a lot of the overlayed instruments.  i.e. During the Storm in part 2, Mike should've kept the vocals and the foreground guitar.  But he was right deleting that annoying clicking :).  In general, I think the album benefited from the "extra" instruments.  There are parts that don't sound great (the trumpet in the intro, if that's what that was, and the saturations), but overall the extras added variety.

I like the original, even if it is flawed.  It's a lot more interesting than the remix, but I understand why he chose to eliminate the extras.

Thanks everyone for pointing me to it.  One hell of a download (4 hours on 56k), but it was worth it.
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Thomaso
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Posted: Jan. 17 2004, 19:24

Hi Fox,

the "clicking" was/is the Nutcracker that is mentioned on the vinyl sleeve! I think it's a rare appearance of an instrument :-)) in the world of music at all; it's just a bit to prominent (load) but I enjoy this. For me a sort of musical joke of the softer kind... Why is the trumpet bad? It also is only to loud. In general, I have the impression that the problem of the original mix is, that they had to do it too quick and/or that is has been done on an analogue mixer. Controling 24 tracks with maybe also changing instruments per track over such a long time (20:00 min.) is a hard job, even for 3 or 4 people in front. 1976, when they had done the remix, they used a automatic mixer (noadays the standard but at this time high end) which gives much more controll over all details. You can save parts of the mix and start from differnent points again and so it's easier. Also they didn't had the pressure to have a quick result as two years before... I guess...

Thomas
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: May 27 2004, 10:25

Here's a question for ya.......

Do any of the compilation CDs currently available use extracts from Mike's original mix of Hergest Ridge?

Jules


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I like beer and I like cheese
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: May 27 2004, 16:49

Quote (familyjules @ May 27 2004, 16:25)
Do any of the compilation CDs currently available use extracts from Mike's original mix of Hergest Ridge?

As I said somewhere else, and AFAIK, only some (older) printings of The Complete have it. A friend told me that the first CD ("Fire") in the Elements boxed set also does, but it's not true. :)

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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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captain cavern Offline




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Posted: Dec. 06 2018, 13:03

Just a question :

Is it me, or the original Hergest Ridge (LP) has some saturation at the end of the part one (choir) ?

(I'm not familiar with this version.)
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Dec. 06 2018, 18:01

It's probably a rainy part of the world, Cav, so I shouldn't be surprised :D
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captain cavern Offline




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Posted: Dec. 08 2018, 13:13

Yes.  ;)

Some serious answers ?
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Dec. 15 2018, 04:05

Quote (captain cavern @ Dec. 06 2018, 13:03)
Just a question :

Is it me, or the original Hergest Ridge (LP) has some saturation at the end of the part one (choir) ?

(I'm not familiar with this version.)

Yes! I grew up with the original mix on vinyl, and the end of part one sounded like there was something wrong with it (lots of distortion).

I don't like the re-mix much. I really does sound like a piece of music that's had a lot of stuff removed (which it is). Now I only play the LP with the original mix that I got the deluxe edition package in 2010.


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"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"
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captain cavern Offline




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Posted: Dec. 15 2018, 21:41

Thanks for your answer.

I was listening to Martin Bartosik's vinyl rip and I found there was this curious distortion in the choir bit. It was the same with another vinyl rip I found recently.

So, Ok, it seems that every original LPs has this distortion.
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