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Topic: One of Mike's Most Artistic Albums< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Matt Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 11:19

I've been trying to follow this thread and make sense of it, at least understand what you lot are all on about and think if I can make any sort of useful or sensible comment on my own views. Unfortunately every time I re-read the thread the only thing that springs to mind is the nagging suspicion that the original post by Nightspore is actually just an extreme form of sarcasm but nobody has picked it up yet. Sortof like Arthur Dents response to Vogon poetry...

Sorry, I'm *really* not getting the "L+S is dead artistic folks" thing at all! Maybe it's just me  :/


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Tayniee Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 11:24

It's probably easier to analyse the intellectual criteria in a composition than the emotional, sensual or imaginative.

In L+S there is evidence of those intellectual components  mentioned earlier in the thread, but how do you measure the degree to which the composer draws from the other 3 . It can only be measured by how it impacts on us.

For me I'm starting to believe it is an intellectual piece, which wouldn't normally work for me but I think most of the tracks capture my imagination, and it has drum and bass sections that appeals to the sensual category etc etc. Still it is a bit of a cold autumn day, but an autumn day can be enjoyable.


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Tayniee Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 11:31

Quote (Matt @ May 20 2008, 11:19)
I've been trying to follow this thread and make sense of it, at least understand what you lot are all on about

I love your down to earthness Matt, you're a gem :)

...but I'm having a very intellectual conversation here, come on follow it, I'm getting to my nitty gritty now  :)


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 12:34

Quote (Matt @ May 20 2008, 16:19)
I've been trying to follow this thread and make sense of it, at least understand what you lot are all on about and think if I can make any sort of useful or sensible comment on my own views. Unfortunately every time I re-read the thread the only thing that springs to mind is the nagging suspicion that the original post by Nightspore is actually just an extreme form of sarcasm but nobody has picked it up yet. Sortof like Arthur Dents response to Vogon poetry...

Sorry, I'm *really* not getting the "L+S is dead artistic folks" thing at all! Maybe it's just me  :/

I've rambled on a lot in this thread, I know, and I'm sorry if I've been incomprehensible, Matt. Part of the trouble is that the philosophical aspects of art really are very difficult, and there's no use pretending that they aren't. Philosophers have haggled about it for centuries and it's true what they say: if you took all the philosophers in the world and stood them in line, they wouldn't reach a conclusion.

I don't think Nightspore was being sarcastic. I think he found that he really was able to listen to Light and Shade in such a way that the album came together as a coherent whole, and not as a collection of bits that many of us have taken it to be. That raises two questions, for me:

1. If he's right, why haven't we seen it too? All that stuff about intellect, emotion, senses and imagination represents an attempt to understand what's going on when we listen. But far more important than any of that is:
2. What will happen the next time I listen to Light and Shade? Will I get something different out of it as a result of this discussion? I don't know. The important outcome, though, is that I will listen again, and perhaps this time I'll be able to hear things I didn't hear before.
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Matt Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 14:44

OK, I might try and listen to L+S again as a result of this discussion but, assuming we aren't being sarcastic about it here, I still don't see it as the most artistic of Mikes works - assuming I am understanding what you mean by that.

To me "artistic" would mean they paint some sort of picture or tell some sort of story which, apart from just being nice music (or bad music or fantastic music), seem to be trying to achieve some sort of artistic theme. With this assumption I would put other works far ahead of L+S in this respect. HR for emoting landscape, MusicVR for the various audio renditions that match visual themes so well, The Lake which to me does impart some sense of that area of the world, TSODE which takes me on a journey into space etc. etc.

I personally don't find the "Light" tracks give me much sense of light and I don't find the "Shade" tracks give me much sense of shade or darkness. Some *individual* tracks for me have merit but not anything that particularly reminds me with light or shade.

Maybe I am still not really understanding what you are all on about in this thread!


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 15:33

Quote (Matt @ May 20 2008, 11:19)
I've been trying to follow this thread and make sense of it, at least understand what you lot are all on about and think if I can make any sort of useful or sensible comment on my own views. Unfortunately every time I re-read the thread the only thing that springs to mind is the nagging suspicion that the original post by Nightspore is actually just an extreme form of sarcasm but nobody has picked it up yet. Sortof like Arthur Dents response to Vogon poetry...

Sorry, I'm *really* not getting the "L+S is dead artistic folks" thing at all! Maybe it's just me  :/

I think it is, Matt. I believe that if you're looking for examples of sarcasm on the Internet, this forum is one of the last places you should visit...

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: May 20 2008, 16:53

Quote (Matt @ May 20 2008, 19:44)
To me "artistic" would mean they paint some sort of picture or tell some sort of story which, apart from just being nice music (or bad music or fantastic music), seem to be trying to achieve some sort of artistic theme. With this assumption I would put other works far ahead of L+S in this respect. HR for emoting landscape, MusicVR for the various audio renditions that match visual themes so well, The Lake which to me does impart some sense of that area of the world, TSODE which takes me on a journey into space etc. etc.

I can't answer for Daniel (Nightspore) so maybe he'll explain further, but I'd say your use of the word 'artistic', Matt, is more narrow than the sense in which he's using it. Evoking some kind of mental picture can be part of the process, but I think Nightspore is talking about something broader - about the way in which an artist tries to creat unity within the work of art, so that all the various elements add up to something coherent, something more significant than just the sum of the separate parts. (If you think of something like a Cezanne painting, for instance, the picture is so perfectly balanced in every conceivable way, that it oftens feels as if every brushstroke is related to, and accounting for, the effect of every other brushstroke.)

I think that's the issue here. Personally, so far I've had pretty much the same response as you to Light and Shade. I haven't experienced the sense of unity and artistic coherence that is being suggested here. So far, to me it just seems like a collection of odds and ends. But I'm very willing to believe that I might have been missing something - some crucial way of approaching the album - that's prevented me from hearing it as Nightspore is hearing it. That's happened to me many, many times, with a wide range of music, and it could be happening again now. That's why when I listen again to Light and Shade, I'll try to listen specifically for the kinds of links between the tracks that he talked about in his first post.

This is, after all, Mike Oldfield we're talking about. Even if he's made some music we're dubious about, we ought at least to be able to acknowledge the possibility that he's attempted something quite intricate and unusual that might take extra time and a different kind of effort to appreciate properly?
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Tayniee Offline




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Posted: May 22 2008, 06:39

Been giving Light and Shade another listen, and with renewed perspective.

The composition to me is a selection of intrumentals, all unconnected musically but there are themes of Light and Shade.

The Light section is far warmer than I gave it credit for earlier on in this thread, with some moving tender moments, particularly in Angelique, First Steps, Rocky and Sunset. It  could be set on a cold Autumn morning though.

The Shade section doesn't have the warmth of 'Light' and has other emotional sensual and imaginative features. Nightshade is the only track where warmth begins to thaw the chill of Dark and this is a playful track to me, another emotional feature.


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smillsoid Offline




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Posted: April 14 2009, 14:48

Music - you either like it or you don't.  I like this album.

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