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Topic: Ommadawn Lost Version, 1975 Demo< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
larstangmark Offline




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Posted: July 27 2010, 10:51

Quote (familyjules @ July 26 2010, 06:39)
Quote (larstangmark @ July 25 2010, 16:01)
Wasn't there an engineer who said Mike put nudie mags all over the mixing desk while playing that solo?

God, really?   :O

I hope that's not true.  It kind of spoils things!

Jules

Philip Newell says so in this "entrevista muy intressante"!  :)

http://mikeoldfield.lacoctelera.net/post....-newell

(you have to paste it into your browser, the link function seems to be out of order + you have babelfish the thing if you're not speaking spanish)


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Airborne Offline




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Posted: July 27 2010, 16:42

Quote (larstangmark @ July 27 2010, 15:51)
Philip Newell says so in this "entrevista muy intressante"!  :)

He told me pretty much the same thing so I guess it is true. I was not aware that he was forced to erase some guitar parts on Ommadawn - he told me it was the initial take of First Excursion. Perhaps it was both. Thanks for posting the link.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: July 28 2010, 04:17

Yesterday I got to hear the lost version for the first time. And I was NOT listening to my still missing copy of the album.

My impressions:

1. Great sound quality. Doesn't sound like a draft or a demo. Very little hiss. Only complaint is drums that sound a bit thin. I would have guessed it was re-mixed and cleaned up from a multi-track in 2010. But that's not the case apparently!

2. Good thing he recorded it again. When Mike got around to re-record it, he used more drums, did more overdubs and expanded on the musical motifs and melodies. Plus he re-wrote the end section, which is really very good here, but which became even better in the final version.
In its "Lost version", Ommadawn's kinship with Hergest Ridge is much more apparent - it's much more like 20 minutes of guitar overdubs.

3. Synthesizers! In the lost version there are audible analogue synths going whhhzzz and whrrrr. Good thing you can't hear much of that on the final version. Doesn't go well with the overall pastoralness of the piece. They're like Yes keyboards.

4. I say, I say, I say. This did surprise me. I thought it was some sort of vocal overdub from what I read here, but this is more like a skit! I love it anyway, but it could have ruined the album's legendary status.
But I got around thinking about it a bit; if the "lost version" is a draft that Mike sent to someone just for listening, this humorous interlude could very well be an internal joke. You know like "let's throw this in and see if anyone will notice".
BUT on the other hand - Mike could have been influenced by an album he played on the previous year - Robert Wyatt's "Rock Botom". Two tracks has crazy speech voiceovers which just as surprising and distracting - both signed poet Ivor Cutler. Who knows?


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"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"
Mark E Smith
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: July 28 2010, 09:44

Quote (larstangmark @ July 27 2010, 10:51)
Philip Newell says so in this "entrevista muy intressante"!  :)

http://mikeoldfield.lacoctelera.net/post....-newell

That's awesome. I could really never buy the "PAIN AND SUFFERING" thing of Ommadawn -- to me it always sounded like it just wasn't there.

But using THAT kind of inspiration is, to me, about as noble as using a fifth-rate Twilight fanfic as inspiration for a piano concerto.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: July 28 2010, 11:41

Let's not fool ourselves. There is nothing more important and to young men than naked girls (or nude men, if you swing that way).
Ask a young man to bare his soul and share his innermost thoughts. He'll tell about this girl he wants naked...


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Mark E Smith
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: July 28 2010, 12:02

Quote (larstangmark @ July 28 2010, 11:41)
Ask a young man to bare his soul and share his innermost thoughts. He'll tell about this girl he wants naked...

But I am a young man! And... well, you'd have better luck trying to get Barack Obama talking about Halo III than to get me talking about anyone naked.

And when I mean "have better luck", I mean "COMING OUT ALIVE".

Just to warn you.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: July 28 2010, 13:20

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ July 28 2010, 12:02)
Quote (larstangmark @ July 28 2010, 11:41)
Ask a young man to bare his soul and share his innermost thoughts. He'll tell about this girl he wants naked...

But I am a young man! And... well, you'd have better luck trying to get Barack Obama talking about Halo III than to get me talking about anyone naked.

And when I mean "have better luck", I mean "COMING OUT ALIVE".

Just to warn you.

Haha! A couple of years psychoterapy and you'll get there!   :laugh:

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"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"
Mark E Smith
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: July 28 2010, 17:10

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ July 28 2010, 12:02)
But I am a young man! And... well, you'd have better luck trying to get Barack Obama talking about Halo III than to get me talking about anyone naked.

Talking about naked people isn't the same as looking at them, Sir M.

You do like to at least look at naked people, don't you?

Oh damn, I just invited you to talk about them.  Scratch that, I value my life.   ;)

Jules


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spark Offline




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Posted: July 29 2010, 11:09

Back to the lost Ommadawn ,

I think the music is wonderful even the the peices he kept for the final release .

But the I say I say jokes are just  a piss up gone wrong . I think he ,

1 , put them on after he new the tape was knackerd .

2 , If he thought ( as he has stated) this was the nearest to his vision of the music in his head to what apeared on tape , why would he ruin it .

3 , If it was such a great Idea why didnt it apear on the final version .
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: July 29 2010, 18:41

Quote (spark @ July 29 2010, 11:09)
I think he ,

1 , put them on after he knew the tape was knackerd .

Nice idea, and I'd like to think you were right, but I believe he was into the idea when he did it and that fate intervened to save us from a much less essential version of Ommadawn.

I thank those fates!

Jules


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Matt Offline




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Posted: Sep. 06 2010, 15:49

Mike2: What's got,er,no legs and 5 eyes?
Mike1: No legs and 5 eyes. I don't know. What's got no legs and 5 eyes?
Mike1: err err
Mike2: What's got no legs and 5 eyes?
Mike1: Err err
Mike2: What's got no legs and 5 eyes?
Mike1: Oh dear,oh dear,oh dear
Mike2: What's got no legs and 5 eyes?

Matt: An opabinia!!!

Cute critter:


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"I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels"
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2011, 20:33

Dear Members
"I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels"?
I have spent quiet moments trying to find an intelligent answer to this whimsical set of, I say xxxxxxx! as my knowledge of MO has lead me to find meaning in all I have seen SO FAR but in sitting thinking & racking my brains on my SOFA I have so far only found a possible meaning of eyes being within a circle or ring as in the inner & outer circle/ring of a wheel & the I's are spokes, & the fact that MO has a great understanding of the "I" (eye being the one) or two eyes as in lOOk being only that which receives the image yet the true "I" is the 1 in MiND remember it is hear where the image is processed and reoriented turned around like the ! to the i, & if you have played the games or observed M"O" in 5 MO (five miles out) U will se3 m"O" WiTH one eye the eye of A HΘrus type of being.

However I am finding it hard to link the beginning ( "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles) in the I say there are 4x the letter eye, & as most will know it is normal when teIIing these jokes to repeat only 3 times the opening 2 words (I say x3) unless one of the L's is an "l" or an "I" one of these is an eye can U see lt In your font? lT 1S RlGHT IN FrONT of U lN PRlNT can U see lT ?. Or is it MOre to do with reversal or MOving letters, standing some on their head etc?.

I do know the number 3 appears to be an important number to MO as in Tr3s lunas (3mOOOns) etc! could this be it lOOOk at the VIWE one gets in loooking at bOOOtttles from above or below/end on.

Well that's all I've got so far any Insight you have I would love to read, yet as always it could all be Π in the sky! couldn't lT.

MANY THANKS yet it may pay to read to the omega letter.
"O"j"O"
  UN
  "O"

OM I1 GOT IT!
ΠΣ ΜΙΚΕ ΓΟΡΔΟΝ ΟΛΔΦΙΕΛΔ or Michael Gordon Oldfield = [5 x eyes = 3 x L (or l) + 2 x i = 5]***[3 x OOO=BOOOtles] [then nothin falls below the line i.e. legs] MAGIC N0 thIng Is nonsense in MO when he Om's. HAPPY!.YES/n0?.can u c the wheels? I candddy. yum um...CDDD! the wheels...the ENDΩ


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L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2011, 16:19

i say i say i say ANSWER IS "mIChaeI  GOrDOn  OIDfIeId"
                                       I  C   1  GOD    OO ID I I

                                 Or replace the L's 1 turned
                                into I's & we get:-

                                IDOL GOLD IDOL
                        or   IDOL IDOL GOLD
                     or    GOLD IDOL IDOL
              now there is also the sum of the three i.e.
            3x4 = 12 (1+2 = 3) & we can see 3O in mO likes playing/using the number of THRE3. MOre to cOMe sOOn. AII THE I3E5T I1, PZ sOM3thing 2 sleep on.
SEE THOUGHER EXPLANATION NOW BY CLICKING THIS LINK: http://tubular.net/forums....=10306;


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L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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TheMann Offline




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Posted: Feb. 19 2015, 04:10

Hi,

only now have I realized that there is a 'Lost Version' available of Ommadawn. Here are my impressions ...

First, I should say that I always have considered Ommadawn as an album in its own division. One of a kind. Nothing can be compared to it. It is untouchable, magic, impossible to conceive, impossible to imagine that a single person could construct something like it. So totally mysterious, so elaborate, so deep and crafty musical ideas weaved into something of enourmous complexity. Its strange title, giving away nothing, the enigmatic choirs .. And, above that, playing skills beyond words; guitar solos blowing away your head. If it is not considered as one of the richest composition in history in 100 years, then it is a true epic scandal.

Ommadawn is such an artefact in the history of music; would a message from an advanced alien civilization sound like this...? (Not literally meant).

There are also plenty of amazing live versions, both those around 1980, but even some very recent (99, 2006) are quite complementary and powerful.

I expected the 'Lost Demo' to be of very bad sound quality and, frankly speaking, pretty uninteresting.

But I am very surprised! Wow, how interesting it is to get this unique insight in how the music took shape! So totally different the early version is to the final version, in terms of structure. So, this is what he was doing, trying out the material in many different ways.. combining stuff, mathematically; trying to optimize how to lay out the underlying smaller set of ideas... Totally fascinating, far beyond the experience to simply listening to it.

Although I certainly think that the Demo is very far from as powerful as the Final version, it is still a very beutiful and interesting piece. Almost standing on its own, due to being so different. I really like some sections. Also, I appreciate details such as the way the lyrics if sung, slightly different.

I was shocked by the I SAY I SAY dialoge, totally ruining the piece; but, on another level, I now can laugh about this monty-python-style thing, and if it is true that 'Ommadawn' really means 'idiot', then I can see why Mike tried this idea out. A good plan in the first place, but not working out when implemented.

This process, of re-recording the same material, and letting it slowely mature: I believe some later recordings would have been equally improved from 'really nice' to 'instant classic'. E.g., (IMHO), Songs of Distant Earth, where he had some amazing material but seemed to take some shortcuts too often.. I often had the impression that live versions of Mikes music were enriched; in particular in the 80-84 era, where the interplay between the musicians and some little variations of the material often added value to the already great material...

Yrs
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Priabonia Offline




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Posted: Feb. 23 2015, 06:49

This thread persuaded me to listen to this again (I think when I first got the deluxe CD, I put this on once and didn't get past the "I say I say" section).

It's an intriguing listen, and perfectly good as a standalone piece, though I do prefer the final version (warmer and closer somehow?)


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Jan. 24 2018, 05:40

I listened to the Lost Version of Part 1 of Ommadawn today, and what most struck me was the presence of the music hall routines. I asked myself why they should be there, and the only answer I could come up with is that perhaps the underlying music tells a kind of dramatic story, and Mike perhaps wished to say "I'm not really serious about that". What could the story be? This is just my interpretation and is probably wrong; but ever since Wreckorder Wrondo I tend to think of recorders as a kind of signpost for disruption. In the familiar version of Ommadawn I hear the guitar saying "Power! power!", and early on in both versions there's the recorder section, so perhaps there's a kind of dramatic story being told in terms of musical instruments alone - a story that Mike isn't really serious about.
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Happy? Offline




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Posted: April 07 2022, 04:29

I prefer the originally released Ommadawn to the demo by far, although I listened it again and, oh my... what a beautiful guitar coda with the uilleann pipes! That's the only part of the demo Mike should really have put in the release somewhere.  :O

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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: April 07 2022, 05:09

Of course the released album version is far better than the lost/demo version, but it is great from an historical point of view, Mike was in a dark period making this album, and if the whole I say, I, say, I say thing was in his mind at the time, you can only imagine how he was feeling, but then again, Mike has always had a comical and cheeky side to himself and his music.
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shenry Offline




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Posted: April 07 2022, 05:15

When I first listened to this, I was shocked at how different and fractured it all felt. It was like Ommadawn but... not. Amazing how just a little bit of tweaking and tightening in the re-recording made it into the record it is. I don't think i would have been a fan of this album if this was the version that was released.

That said, as many people have already commented, the little guitar and pipes coda is absolutely beautiful. A real find, and almost a little stand-alone piece in its own right. I wonder if there are any more little off-cuts and unreleased doodles from around this time of this quality? By my understanding, he "wrote" Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn simultaneously while playing/recording them, so surely there must be lots of experiments and odds and ends on tape somewhere!
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Happy? Offline




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Posted: April 07 2022, 08:18

I think a lot of those shelved 'doodles' have already ended up in many tracks. ;)

In the 1971 demos of Tubular Bells, at the end of the released demo tracks labelled 'Peace A' and 'Peace B' you can hear the section that ended up in the Amarok 'Scot' section about 20 years later. Also the 'Didlybom' section is known to have its origins in the Sallyangie years.

I wouldn't be surprised if Amarok contains a lot more melodies that originate from the 70s.


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