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Topic: MoTS versus Mont St Michel, Your preference?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 05:43

Quote (TheMann @ Aug. 14 2008, 05:23)
To me, the comparison is meaningless. Its like comparing Ommadawn with MusicForTheBalcony.

Well, it can be done, if only in the sense that we can compare the amount of pleasure we get out of the two (which is really all I was asking anyway). And for the record (whoops, pun), I much prefer "Music from the Balcony" to "Ommadawn"!
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 13:06

Quote (nightspore @ Aug. 14 2008, 05:43)
And for the record (whoops, pun), I much prefer "Music from the Balcony" to "Ommadawn"!

Wow! I'm not alone!! :)

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bee Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 16:58

Comparisons are interesting because they always throw fresh light onto our existing ideas on things, but I do feel as This Mann said, it all comes down to personal choice, liking one more than another etc, and for so many varied resaons. For me it has to be Music of the Spheres. It is light years ahead of Mont St Michel, but that doesn't mean I don't like M st M, far from it...it is different that's all, and for me , now at this point in my life Music of the Spheres takes me on a very special journey each time I hear it. It is joyful, brimming with energy and optimism, and how I love that. Mont St Micel is more reflective and sedate, but so, so beautiful.

Interesting points have been raised, and reading through what you have all said has made me reconsider why I feel the way I do about certain aspects of Mike's music. Music of the Spheres works for me as a whole piece so well as does Mont St Michel, it's just shorter that's all. I think where Mike is very, very clever here is that in MOTS he has made each part a tiny masterpiece of a whole masterpiece so they stand up well on their own but are at the same time vital to the whole piece. He has said in interviews ( think I am right in remembering this ) that he often finds tiny parts in classical music very interesting and is not that bothered about the rest of it. I feel this too sometimes in other music. You don't have to like everything about a piece to appreciate it's beauty. I could never say that about Ommadawn or Tbular Bells though, they are simply perfect to my ears.

MotS works so well when you hear it all together, naturally progressing, but equally each fragment is perfection in itself. (Although, as I have changed a setting on my ipod and have forgotten how to change it back!, at the moment I am listening to it in a random order each time, but I have listened to it differently as a result of this, ) I think  Mike's skill is in thinking of how to link one part to the next, it always gives me great pleasure to search for the threads that join it together.

With the filmscore idea, I just can't decide on that. I would say MOTS is too big for a film score, it would flood the film, and I would be immmersed in sound, not pictures, it's too abstract in a way I guess. And I'd always be drawn to that freedom of thought. Film scores have some memorable music but I think ( and this may be totally wrong to some ) the music has to be in the background of a film, and of a gentler hue, not so vibrant somehow. I'm not a real film buff though, so you can't go by me really, but I'd say bits of Light & Shade would be better suited to Films. Music of the Spheres deserves to be heard as itself.

(But, having said that, I will now contradict myself because it's wonderful to listen to as you look at beautiful landscapes and wide open spaces!;) ;)


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 19:33

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Aug. 14 2008, 13:06)
Quote (nightspore @ Aug. 14 2008, 05:43)
And for the record (whoops, pun), I much prefer "Music from the Balcony" to "Ommadawn"!

Wow! I'm not alone!! :)

Glad to hear it, Sir M!  ;)  "Music from the Balcony" has that terrific, transcendent piano phrase, occurring a number of times, that lifts the whole piece into one of Mike's best, in my opinion. There are a number of other pleasing touches, too... Perhaps we need a second-by-second analysis of "Balcony" in the same way we have one for Amarok....
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 19:36

Quote (bee @ Aug. 14 2008, 16:58)
Film scores have some memorable music but I think ( and this may be totally wrong to some ) the music has to be in the background of a film, and of a gentler hue, not so vibrant somehow.

Obviously you haven't seen A Clockwork Orange, Bee!  :cool:
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Dirk Star Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2008, 05:10

Quote (bee @ Aug. 14 2008, 21:58)
Comparisons are interesting because they always throw fresh light onto our existing ideas on things, but I do feel as This Mann said, it all comes down to personal choice, liking one more than another etc, and for so many varied resaons. For me it has to be Music of the Spheres. It is light years ahead of Mont St Michel, but that doesn't mean I don't like M st M, far from it...it is different that's all, and for me , now at this point in my life Music of the Spheres takes me on a very special journey each time I hear it. It is joyful, brimming with energy and optimism, and how I love that. Mont St Micel is more reflective and sedate, but so, so beautiful.

Interesting points have been raised, and reading through what you have all said has made me reconsider why I feel the way I do about certain aspects of Mike's music. Music of the Spheres works for me as a whole piece so well as does Mont St Michel, it's just shorter that's all. I think where Mike is very, very clever here is that in MOTS he has made each part a tiny masterpiece of a whole masterpiece so they stand up well on their own but are at the same time vital to the whole piece. He has said in interviews ( think I am right in remembering this ) that he often finds tiny parts in classical music very interesting and is not that bothered about the rest of it. I feel this too sometimes in other music. You don't have to like everything about a piece to appreciate it's beauty. I could never say that about Ommadawn or Tbular Bells though, they are simply perfect to my ears.

MotS works so well when you hear it all together, naturally progressing, but equally each fragment is perfection in itself. (Although, as I have changed a setting on my ipod and have forgotten how to change it back!, at the moment I am listening to it in a random order each time, but I have listened to it differently as a result of this, ) I think  Mike's skill is in thinking of how to link one part to the next, it always gives me great pleasure to search for the threads that join it together.

With the filmscore idea, I just can't decide on that. I would say MOTS is too big for a film score, it would flood the film, and I would be immmersed in sound, not pictures, it's too abstract in a way I guess. And I'd always be drawn to that freedom of thought. Film scores have some memorable music but I think ( and this may be totally wrong to some ) the music has to be in the background of a film, and of a gentler hue, not so vibrant somehow. I'm not a real film buff though, so you can't go by me really, but I'd say bits of Light & Shade would be better suited to Films. Music of the Spheres deserves to be heard as itself.

(But, having said that, I will now contradict myself because it's wonderful to listen to as you look at beautiful landscapes and wide open spaces!;) ;)

Well I`ve compared MOTS to film music as well I must admit.I think I`ve even used the whole "soundtrack to a movie that does`nt exist" cliche as well.That said I do agree with what your saying there.MOTS flows start to finish somehow,like the whole piece is the "movie" itself I suppose.It has it`s own built in narration if you like.Mmmm kind of hard to explain for me but I can certainly see where your coming from.Or more appropriatly perhaps "hear" where your coming from anyway.

Imo I think it`s perfectly natural to want to compare MOTS with Mont St Michel.You know they`re Mike`s two longer orchestral pieces after all.I can remember playing Mont St Michel to a friend of mine not long after it was released.And just as that piece starts to get a little bit excited if you like.I can remember he turned to me and said.."Mmmm it`s all getting a bit BIG MOVIE now is`nt it"..I must admit I did kind of agree with him at the time.Plus I`m not so sure that piece really works tagged on at the end of Voyager the way it is.I can see why Mike put it there given the whole Celtic theme of the album etc.I just feel that with the rest of that album Mike somehow conjours up a whole empathic beautiful mood for the Celtic ethos and landscape somehow.Where as with Mont St Michel I suddenly feel like I`m watching a movie about it.Probably spent too many hours watching re-runs of Whiskey Galore on my part though as well.But yeah I just find it a little jarring in the context of that album I feel.Maybe I`m being a little unfair on it I suppose and I should try to listen to it as it`s own seperate entity a few more times.At this moment in time though MOTS is certainly my favourite of the two.
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2008, 01:40

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ July 29 2008, 12:47)
...I think several people would enjoy a punch on my face much more than a box of chocolates...

I imagine your face as being a bit angular, Sir M, so I wouldn't be so quick to throw a punch - even if I wanted to - as I have delicate hands, but it might depend on the sort of chocolates on offer. I'm rather partial to See's assortments. Pralines before pugilism!

Bee, I agree with much of what you've said about MOTS. In regards to film scores, though, I've enjoyed a few that seemed to almost compete with the visuals, so I don't think a score need be subdued, necessarily. I don't really see MOTS as 'film score' type music, either. Of course, anything could be used as film music, especially something which is orchestral or classical, but I haven't thought 'What movie would this fit?' when listening to MOTS. Maybe that's because I've long considered 'film scores' as the modern form of classical music, anyway.


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2008, 02:23

Quote (Sweetpea @ Aug. 26 2008, 01:40)
Maybe that's because I've long considered 'film scores' as the modern form of classical music, anyway.

Well, the composers of the scores would have music degrees, just like those who compose "purely". It probably comes down to money: those who want to make some write for the cinema, and those who don't write purely for their Muse. Earlier on, composers such as Prokofiev, Bliss, and Vaughan Williams pursued both goals, of course.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2008, 06:01

Quote (Sweetpea @ Aug. 26 2008, 01:40)
Of course, anything could be used as film music, especially something which is orchestral or classical, but I haven't thought 'What movie would this fit?' when listening to MOTS.

That would have been a quite annoying way to assess the album, I believe. One thing is when certain spots of the album (or even the entire thing) reek of Hollywood cliché and sound "movie-like", but another thing is trying consciously to pin down the whole thing to a context. I guess a filmmaker could eventually listen to the album, searching for parts that could fit his film, but that would be with a definitive, practical goal. To me, Music of the Spheres unfolds itself very musically, without the need to be attached to "stories" or sights. It's just alright the way it is.

(I also have a certain aversion to film music, really - I can't cope with the fact that every composer seems to have a "checklist" of things they NEED to include in the score, mandatority, for it to work - like the chaotic crescendo of strings and brasses that just stop, or the strings hitting the leading tone as the harmony moves to the sub-dominant with a cymbal roll in the most poignant moment of the whole thing (A Whole New World comes to mind, blech). Give it a rest, will ya?)


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Sentinel101 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 26 2008, 15:57

As an avid collector of soundtracks I must say that MOTS is NOT a soundtrack. Maybe fragments of it could be used in dedicated film sequences (like "Also sprach Zarathustra" in 2001) but not the whole thing.

Soundtracks are way more repetitive and strongly bound to the imagery. This may also be the reason why Mike doesn't do soundtracks anymore. On "Killing Fields" he found himself restricted by the medium and the people (director, producer ...).

Yet MOTS still sounds too familiar for me. It doesn't have any up and downs; it only has ups, some slower, some faster. I would love to see Mike getting more adventurous with the orchestra, blending in his own instrumentation (especially electric guitars) and create more something of a rollercoaster ride with dark, brooding pieces moving into lighter realms and up to ultimate beauty. "Standing Stone" of Paul McCartney is such a piece that has more variety in it, even atonal sequences, and rewards you with a great climax.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Oct. 26 2008, 19:29

Quote (Sentinel101 @ Oct. 26 2008, 15:57)
.

Yet MOTS still sounds too familiar for me.

Yes, I'd agree with that. It's also the first MO album since Incantationsto be lacking any of that trademark yearning feeling, which is probably why I don't care for MotS very much. In its place there's a feeling of vague menace, of something unpleasant waiting round the corner. I wonder if it's possible for Exegesis to wear off??
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Tubularman Offline




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Posted: Oct. 26 2008, 22:17

Quote (olracUK @ July 30 2008, 01:39)
I actually agree with Nightspore here. Mont St Michel does carry that Oldfield trademark - crescendo, feeling, it makes my heart travel (unlike the rest of voyager which is IMHO pants).

MotS really comes across to me as an adventure that failed. Some great melodies, but not a coherent whole. Unlike his usual long form compositions, I think MotS is too disparate, to disjointed to flow for me. I don't get taken on that journey.

i agree on this one. Mont St is doing something special with me that MOTS dont do. I love the end on that lovely melody and the guitar is really touching.
A dramatic lovely tune that makes me think of something like "lost love", something sad.
"Animus" and "Harbinger" have something of that actually.
"Empyrean" have not!!


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Oct. 27 2008, 03:39

Quote (Tubularman @ Oct. 26 2008, 22:17)
Mont St is doing something special with me that MOTS dont do. I love the end on that lovely melody and the guitar is really touching.
A dramatic lovely tune that makes me think of something like "lost love", something sad.
"Animus" and "Harbinger" have something of that actually.
"Empyrean" have not!!

"Mont St Michel" speaks like a child might do - directly from the heart - undefended and unprotected.

MOTS is like a big old bear.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Oct. 27 2008, 06:15

Quote (nightspore @ Oct. 26 2008, 19:29)
there's a feeling of vague menace, of something unpleasant waiting round the corner.

Yes, I get a sense of something dark in MOTS - it comes across as "regret" to me, - the pain of regret. It's quite a heavy feeling and shows itself in moments that I can only describe as killjoy moments. It seems to lurk in the background and torment, - and steals inner peace.

I don't get that carefree and unashamed expression of joy and hope in MOTS that I hear. in say, the last section of Hergest Ridge. Though to be fair Mike Oldfield does convey courage and hope at the end of MOTS.

MOTS is a fabulous piece of work, but I would rather listen to the hope and yearning of "Mont St Michel" than the regret -(shame, guilt, self destruct ?) - I don't know. There is just something heavy in there that I'm uncomfortable with.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 27 2008, 09:05

I don't know if it was intended, but the space is indeed a place that can inflict many disparate, conflicting feelings. At the same time it's fascinating, it's also dark and scary and empty, but it's impossible to feel only "scared" when in space. I think Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks is an album that conveys that very well, and if [í]Music of the Spheres[/i] was meant to do that as well, I think it might have succeeded?

But I don't know... For me, the album is quite clear and obvious in its intentions. I don't try to reflect any feelings of my own into the album, and what I get back is pretty much exactly what it seems to offer, and I enjoy it a lot.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Oct. 27 2008, 12:19

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Oct. 27 2008, 09:05)
space is indeed a place that can inflict many disparate, conflicting feelings. At the same time it's fascinating, it's also dark and scary and empty, but it's impossible to feel only "scared" when in space.

Yes, that would in part explain the "dark" side to MOTS, and I think these elements (dark. scary, empy) can be found in TSODE.

But for me there is an additional darkness that I can't quite put my finger on. When Hayley Westenra sings "On my heart -the nights are drawing in"... I get a glimpse of it there, like a dark projection - to my ears anyway. What is she actually saying, or projecting ?

Or am I reading too much into it ?


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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: Oct. 31 2008, 16:15

I also get that feeling of sadness that's almost visual so i don't think you're reading to much into it.The best music should do this.
The one thought i've had is that this is in someway Mike coming to terms with his not being young anymore.Don't know why but it sounds like a man realising he's getting on a bit.My Dad's a year older than Mike and i sometimes catch a glimpse of that in him.I may be wrong but that's the feeling i get.A sort of introspective,retrospective melancholy.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Nov. 01 2008, 06:52

Quote (The Caveman @ Oct. 31 2008, 16:15)
The one thought i've had is that this is in someway Mike coming to terms with his not being young anymore.

I would say that Mike wears his heart on his sleeve, and the clues are usually there...

I agree, the mood of sadness in MOTS fits the loss of youthfulness. More than that, the "haunting" mood that I get  suggests - a nostalgic regret for a "lost" youth. It's as if he is saying, let it be like yesterday but without all that shit and struggle.

The circumstances of his youth, and the impact of having a parent with a severe mental illness took it's toll, and he lost a lot of years recovering from it when he should have been living. When I see that photo of him on the cover of Incantations I just want to bundle him up, take him home, and get a good meal in him.

I hope he is making up for lost time. He can't look back on lost chances though, - he made great music and delighted us all.


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Drealm Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2010, 00:55

Quote (nightspore @ July 29 2008, 11:18)
As MO's two obvious "classical" works, an equally obvious question is: which do you prefer? My vote is for "Mont St Michel", where Mike manages, particularly towards the end, to translate his trademark signature of transcendent, emotional yearning into orchestral terms. In MotS, on the other hand, the dominant emotion seems to be uneasiness,which, personally, I find less appealing.

My vote goes too for Mont St-Michel: this song is one of the greatest masterpiece Mike ever did, in my opinion.

But I really enjoy MOTS, that's for sure.
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shaynw Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2010, 01:33

Quote (Drealm @ Feb. 25 2010, 00:55)
My vote goes too for Mont St-Michel: this song is one of the greatest masterpiece Mike ever did, in my opinion.

But I really enjoy MOTS, that's for sure.

I would have to agree there "ONE OF" the greatest masterpieces and I think MOTS is a bit BLAH...

I really need to give MOTS a serious listen before I can say for sure but MSM is great :)
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