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Topic: Mike Oldfield quits Britain over smoking ban< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Tubularman Offline




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Posted: Oct. 27 2007, 11:36

Quote (larstangmark @ Oct. 27 2007, 17:29)
Quote (Tubularman @ Oct. 24 2007, 22:20)
indeed! like the pink floyd forum a fleeting glimpse..
everything over there is about who's best and who is pink floyd..

Perhaps because the question "which one is Mike" rarely pops up. And if it does, it's easily sorted out.

hehe true ;)
But people should anyway respect others point or meanings..


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Sydslittlebiscuit Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 10:41

Myself I can't see Mike if he moved over to Spain staying there too long, as he has such a deep ingrained English eccentricity  (even though he is from Irish roots), he would miss this Island I think :-) True he would be more respected in Spain musically, I dunno I just see Mike as so belonging here, I know all these stupid nanny state rules are a pain, but you get madness where ever you go.

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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 13:01

Actually I know many english artists who don't get the recognition the deserve in England. Soft Machine, Genesis and Pink Floyd began their careers doing tours in Italy, France and Belgium. England didn't want to know about them if the weren't on the cover of the NME that particular week.
Two personal favorites, Douglas Pearce (Death in June) and Edward Ka-Spel (Legendary Pink Dots) both left England because they were completely igonered there as artists although they were welcomed with open arms in other countries.

And what do these artists have in common? They are (or were) all old-school english eccentrics. Everyone loves that except the english themselves it seems. It's strange.

Hugh Hopper, the hyper-talented bassist of Soft Machine found himself being unable to get a gig i England in 1980 and he had to work at the Canterbury tourist bureau to make ends meet. What happened is that fans from the Netherlands tracked him down and asked him to form a band with them, which he gladly did. They expected him to be a jazz-rock god, so they must have been shocked to find that he couldn't even have a career in music and didn't even play the bass anymore.

I suspect that Mike is sick of the way he's being treated in England. The UK media treats him like an anachronism per definition - just a part of the great 70s mythology and the Virgin Records succes saga - a figure frozen in time, more likely to appear in the tabloids than in the music papers. It doesn't matter that his records chart, the press won't do more than raise half an eyebrow over the fact that "Mr Tubular Bells" still makes records. That's the way he's been treated since he was 25 years old - as some kind of has-been. It's atrocious.

I think I know why Syd Barrett never did another album. Most likely he didn't like the prospect of talking about Piper at the Gates of Dawn on talkshows for the rest of his life.

Smoking? No way. I just think he's not comfortable in the UK.


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"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"
Mark E Smith
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 14:36

To be fair I think had the reasons for Mike's leaving the UK had anything to do with the way the UK music scene treats he would have said so in his little rant. He's obviously genuinely aggrieved at the way the UK is generally going with regard to the points he makes. I totally agree with Sydlittlebiscuit's points though he may find himself moving more and more often if he's looking for some sort of utopia that doesn't exist. By the way he talks sometimes I don't think he'll find anywhere he truly feels comfortable, which is sad really.

In reply to Larstangmark. Yeah I agree with your points. I think  Mike is a very important artist and a unique voice within the UK music world. As certainly unique, talented and individual as people like Kate Bush or Peter Gabriel. Why he isn't as revered and talked about as those two artists is a debatable issue we could go on for pages discussing. But I would say he has played into the hands of his detractors so many times in his career that he often hasn't helped himself and this rather narrow minded outburst about the break down of British society, whether you agree with it or not, hasn't helped him in any way. Perhaps its little things like that that separate him from his peers.
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 14:54

How is Mike being narrow minded by putting his hands up and saying "i dont agree with this anymore, i'm moving?"

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Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 16:11

Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 28 2007, 14:54)
How is Mike being narrow minded by putting his hands up and saying "i dont agree with this anymore, i'm moving?"

Well he certainly doesn't seem to be coming across as particularly open minded does he? Open minded to the fact that passive smoking kills people, lots of people. So the no smoking ban might just be a good thing.   Or open minded about the fact that speed cameras might help prevent people speeding thus stopping road accidents and saving lives. Or open minded to the fact that some CCTV cameras might help solve or even prevent crime. Narrow mindedness is the opposite open mindedness in my book.
Whilst Mike is perfectly entitled to his opinions if he's going to have public rant about them then he's got to expect the fact that people might not agree with him and that people from his home country who do actually quite like UK culture and the way some of it at least is heading and feel there's actually a lot to proud of might just point that out to him.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 16:54

Quote (TOBY @ Oct. 28 2007, 21:11)
Narrow mindedness is the opposite open mindedness in my book.

Isn't that too black and white, though, Toby? - to oppose them in this way with one implied as being good, and the other bad? A mind that's completely open would be more like a dustbin than a mind.

Mike's views as expressed in the article that spawned this thread (and in which I have little faith with regard to its accuracy) might seem intolerant, but not necessarily narrow-minded. It's not narrow-minded to be so concerned about the erosion of basic liberties as to decide to emigrate. The issues are not so cut-and-dried, I think.

But as I said earlier, I'd like to know more about what this article left out of the reported conversation.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 18:04

Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 28 2007, 16:54)
Isn't that too black and white, though, Toby? - to oppose them in this way with one implied as being good, and the other bad? A mind that's completely open would be more like a dustbin than a mind.

I know things are never black and white Alan but for me open mindedness is a far more attractive characteristic than narrow mindedness, generally speaking. I prefer people who are artistically open minded and politically open minded or socially open minded.  I fully see your point that Mike may well have been quoted out of context and if so I apologise unreservedly for accusing him of being a narrow minded conservative (to be fair I'm sure Mike's probably politically agnostic)

Whilst obviously one would never accuse anybody of being narrow minded for being concerned about the erosion of social liberties i think people should look at both sides of any given argument and perhaps take on board others views and see what the rest of society thinks. I mean its a no brainer to me that smoking should be banned in all public places and unfortunately you can't make exceptions to that rule. I know the rest of the debate is contentions and believe me i do see why people get so upset at the idea of the nanny state and the idea of a big brother state and peoples hated of political correctness. But the idea I always think is much worse than the actual reality and that actual reality despite what Mike may or may not say isn't that bad i don't think. I don't want to die of lung cancer so the smoking ban suits me. I'm a pretty careful driver so speed cameras don't bother me. As for CCTV, the idea that society needs it bothers me but we live in   one of the most densely populated small islands in the world and until people address the causes of crime in this country CCTV will and does help solve crime.
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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 19:31

I blame the kids. Back in my day blah blah school uniforms blah blah mind my daffodils pesky neighbours policemen that are still babies blah blah

What? Smoking is bad for me? Next you'll be telling me a bottle of red plonk a night and a few whiskeys are vorbotten too....

:D  :p


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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2007, 19:32

For me , the smoking ban has made thing's worse than people could have imagined.
For starters in a town centre until the ban, a person was aware of someone walking by smoking, now on the other hand the someone has been replaced by groups of people in some cases large groups that smoke at the entrance/exit of said centre's, or outside large shop's the result being a greater awareness to the odour of tobacco and areas littered with the debris of the stubbed out offender. To me way more offensive than it was before.
This whole subject is becoming a bit too much 'I don't so you should'nt'.
I have never owned a motor bike but if I saw a biker being scraped off the road I would'nt say serve's him right.
To judge people on their likes or dislikes, on their habit's good or bad is not the way forward, to point a finger at smokers and treat them as lepper's is narrowminded alienisation on a grande scale.
ps I don't smoke.


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I, ON THE OTHER HAND. AM A VICTIM OF YOUR CARNIVOUROUS LUNAR ACTIVITY.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 29 2007, 03:53

Quote (TOBY @ Oct. 28 2007, 23:04)
Whilst obviously one would never accuse anybody of being narrow minded for being concerned about the erosion of social liberties i think people should look at both sides of any given argument and perhaps take on board others views and see what the rest of society thinks.

But how do we know that Mike hasn't considered both sides of the argument, and that he hasn't taken other views on board? It's perfectly reasonable to consider the pros and cons - and then reach a decision (which others may disagree with). We all do that, all the time, but that doesn't make us narrow-minded. To agree with what the rest of society thinks all the time would make us puppets, wouldn't it?

To shift the perspective a little - don't many of the greatest artists often reject what the rest of society thinks? When MO persisted with Tubular Bells, the rest of the music industry was telling him no one would want it. Was it narrow minded of him to reject that opinion and follow his own instincts?

I'm glad TBBE joined in here, because I agree with a lot of what he says there. There is something shocking about the huddles of smokers one now sees in the streets outside offices taking smoking breaks, ostracised as though they were pariahs. From a situation where smokers filled every public place with smoke, the balance has now been shifted too far in the opposite direction. Meanwhile the directors of tobacco companies smugly add up their millions.

I'm not a smoker either, by the way - but I know unfairness when I see it. I don't believe it's narrow-minded of me to point it out. Rather the opposite.

[Footnote] This thread gives us a very different perspective on MO's decision, in which he makes his own comment about the smoking issue.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Oct. 29 2007, 04:40

Perhaps its difficult for me to appreciate the scale of the problem in England where its clearly a more densely populated place than up here in Scotland. Up here the smoking ban was brought in 18 months ago and there hasn't been much of a problem with it. And studies have shown that people who only ever had a fag after a few pints (which included me at one point in my life) are no longer doing that because they can't be bothered to go outside. Because of the weather up here people really don't want to go and stand outside to smoke if they can help it so people are actually quitting smoking which is just great news for everyone. I'm sure in years to come the smoking ban across the whole of the UK will be seen as one of more enlightened (no pun intended) decisions our society made in the 21st century. Personally I don't think its fair for other peoples smoke to harm me. If thats an infringement on others civil liberties so be it.

But Alan yeah you're right about Mike being taken out of context and the acknowledgment that he came across like a 'Hockney-esque grump '
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captainjjb Offline




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Posted: Oct. 29 2007, 06:23

I couldn't give a toss about Mike or where he lives.  I'm only into the music which is often fabulous.  Where's the new CD?
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 29 2007, 06:38

Quote (TOBY @ Oct. 29 2007, 09:40)
Personally I don't think its fair for other peoples smoke to harm me.

And you're right, Toby. It isn't. But there is no solution that's fair to everyone. Ethical decisions of this kind are really, really hard to make - and it's perfectly reasonable for different people to take up a different stance according to their perspective.

There's no end of issues like this one, with no simple  solution. If I didn't drive a car myself, I wouldn't think it was fair for other people's exhaust fumes to harm me, for instance - but that alone wouldn't make it reasonable to ban the use of cars. And so on.
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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Oct. 29 2007, 14:37

I'm finding it hard to concentrate on this topic, the glare from Toby's Halo is blistering my eyeball's.

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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 29 2007, 19:06

hahahahahaha  :laugh:

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Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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sidney Offline




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Posted: Oct. 30 2007, 04:54

I think mike has left the country because he knows that we know hes washed out and has nothing left to offer us but his old music recycled. If I was sat in a 3.5 million mansion with my own studio I would be blowing the smoke of the worlds biggest cigar in the face of my local mp with a big smile on my face and saying "yeah, wot ya gonna do?". The new album isnt really all that new is it! Nice, but no cigar. :laugh:

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sidney Offline




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Posted: Oct. 30 2007, 05:32

Right, thats it, you are all idiots, smoking kills. Just go to your local hospital and visit the cancer ward for confirmation. Mike left the country because he can afford too, because idiots like us have been buying his records for 30 years now, we made him a millionare, it was not his genius or anything mystical, it was royalties for recycled music, and how does he thank us? he buggers off to Spain, nice one Mike.

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sidney Offline




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Posted: Oct. 30 2007, 06:53

I love my country, Mike Oldfield should stay and do for England wot Sting did for the rain forest, mount a campaign and spend the next 5 years gigging constantly in the UK, 5 nights a week to get the message across, if you dont like England, dont leave, stay and try to fix it, bring back Morris dancing, vote for what you like, vote against what you dont like, if you just leave cos its crap, its one less vote that could make a difference for us all against living in the crap, and dont freekin moan about the smoking ban if you voted for the Government that said it would be cool if we stop the smokers from smoking, get off your arses and do something to keep Great Britain Great instead of sitting on your fat arses moaning about the loss of a washed out old has been. :(

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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 30 2007, 09:32

Your entitled to your opinion of course, sidney. I'm just so glad its just yours.

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Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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