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Topic: Mike drops more rock album hints in Mojo< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
kazav Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 12:41

He should work with Phill Brown then. That guy is legendary.

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Philippe Tavares Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 15:41

Quote (CJJC @ Aug. 02 2012, 15:08)
The quick pull-off runs in QE2 are among my favourite things ever recorded.

:) i agree !
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Philippe Tavares Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 15:47

Quote (Tati The Sentinel @ Aug. 02 2012, 12:32)
The problem is not on musicians who use the computer to create great music...but the crappy ones that are dominating the world!

:D i agree ! ....and as i'm not dominating the world maybe i could extrapolate in saying i'm not taking part of those crappy musicians  :D   :p
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GusFogle Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 16:02

Quote (larstangmark @ Aug. 02 2012, 12:09)
"No, that does not sound like a real bass guitar!".

Are you talking about his more recent (past 15 years) bass sounds, or his more classic bass sounds?

I always thought Mike had very unique bass sounds, such as on Amarok and Tubular Bells 2003.

As for the "are computers instruments?" debate, all I have to say is: creating music with a computer may make you a composer, but it does not make you a musician. A computer is a tool, as are musical instruments. The difference is that creating music with real instruments can take years of practice, patience and discipline. Essentially anyone can get on a computer and slap a few rhythms and notes together.
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Philippe Tavares Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 16:24

:cool: ..all of this doesn't give you talent  !!!
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 16:28

Quote (GusFogle @ Aug. 02 2012, 16:02)
Quote (larstangmark @ Aug. 02 2012, 12:09)
"No, that does not sound like a real bass guitar!".

Are you talking about his more recent (past 15 years) bass sounds, or his more classic bass sounds?

I always thought Mike had very unique bass sounds, such as on Amarok and Tubular Bells 2003.

I'm was thinking about the bass figure in Tubular Bells 2003 part 1. It's 0:52 into this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tun9bcnfotU

That's a modulation wheel vibrato.

Mike is an excellent bass player and usually has a great and unique bass sounds just as you mentioned (there's a thread somewhere on this forum about his merits as a bass player!). That's why it's so frustrating to hear him use cheap plugins.

I think that a producer would also have advised against his excessive use of "saxatar" on Tres Lunas and vocaloid plugin on that other album. It's just laziness! Deep down I think he knows that the real deal would have sounded much better.


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Philippe Tavares Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 16:44

;) ... maybe Mike wanted this sound and not another one . ... maybe it's areal bass sound ...through a sampler and a computer .  :D

... Mike has always said that he couldn't do what he wanted during all those Virgin years ... i guess we should be happy for him now he can do what he wants !
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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 17:07

Quote (larstangmark @ Aug. 03 2012, 08:28)
and vocaloid plugin on that other album. It's just laziness

You mean Light + Shade..Go on say it... you wont feel dirty  :laugh:
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christopher Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 17:46

While I appreciate and respect others opinions on the computer debate, he was very clear in what he meant by his statement.  So, there is no need, imho, to debate it.  

As a musician and composer, and someone who can play many instruments, I find it insulting that music has become lazy and over-produced!  It ruins the spirit and disregards the talent needed to be a musician!  

I personally know "people" in LA and I tell them everytime I hear a sample, I won't buy it if you're going to let Timberland, and other producers ruin the beauty of the song by over-producing it, turning up the volume, and being lazy.  I love you, but I can do this at home on Logic.  Why would I want to buy it!?

I am extremely hopeful that he can use this platform to convince the industry to head back to real instruments and drop the computer act!  I honestly believe the music industry will die off in ten years, to little or nothing, if they don't listen to Mike's message!  Look at the history of music and an article from scientists in Spain regarding modern pop music, and you'll see a direct link between computers and the death of an industry and music.  It wasn't and isn't torrents and pirating, it's lack of talent!  

Take it or leave it, this is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!  Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this debate :)
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fragile Offline




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Posted: Aug. 02 2012, 18:00

@landmark:
I know what you mean. In the opening of TB2 the bass sounds like a bass sample played on keyboard with pitch bend. This is not the sound of the original Wal bass (know that very well ;-). Mike had times where he loved to manipulate the instrument sounds. He wanted a more overall sythesized sound. I dont know why. I prefer the original bass sound much more. Also the tubular bells (instrument) in later recordings are just samples and not recordings from the instrument itself. Also voices: why does he prefer vst plug ins more than real voices in so many later recordings? For me that sounds awful.
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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 03:55

I've always found the computer music debate very interesting and I think there are two key points.

Firstly that of integrity. When something is fake, the listener knows it's fake, i.e. saxaguitar or whatever you want to call it. No matter how convincing it is the heart knows what's going on and can't relate to it. Yeah, maybe it's fun for the musician or composer involved but there's no need to use it in a recording over the real thing.

Secondly and most importantly the bottom line is creativity. Now if computers and software initiate creativity then that's a good thing and it's something that a listener will pick up on conciously or subconciuosly.

I believe you need both things, if you have an incredibly creative flurry this can carry the integrity of the sounds. I think (perhaps controversially) this has been the case on some of Oldfield's albums, Taurus II is an all time favourite but listen closely and the some of the keyboard sounds are a bit tacky. It doesn't matter though because there is so much creative genius and so many other great sounds around them that those keyboards come across as fun and quirky and sound great.

I think on top of this, staring at a computer screen for hours on end is not condusive to creativity, it saps the soul. This is why I think it can be better to seperate the role of producer, engineer and musician. You can't avoid computers at some stage of the recording process in this day and age and it's much better for the musician to be lost in the soul of the music than to be staring at a screen thinking about peak levels, compressors, limiters, bit rates and all the rest of it

The opinions I'm expressing here have been formulated through experience as a listener, musician and producer. I spent 8 years making my last album because (amongst many other things) I had to save money for the right instruments and learn my craft as I went along. Some of the keyboard sounds are plugins becuase I was never going to find or be able to afford a mellotron for example, but the plugins for these are great. Much of that creative head of steam I built up making Mohribold was lost when mixing and mastering the album because I spent weeks on end staring at the screen and wrestling with technology.

I do realise of course that music, as with all art, is subjective and as such one persons classic guitar sound is another's tacky plugin.


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Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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Matt Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 07:42

Huffington Post interview makes interesting reading! Rod Stewart????? Elton John????

:O


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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 08:01

He needs to try to get big names involved.That would be a massive boost to his new project.Let's wait and see!

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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 08:03

Quote (Matt @ Aug. 03 2012, 07:42)
Huffington Post interview makes interesting reading! Rod Stewart????? Elton John????

:O

To be honest I think either would be brilliant, particularly Elton John. I presume Mike's paths with Elton will have crossed before since Kevin Ayers is the common link between them. Any singer who could bring a bit of gravitas to Mike's song writing is welcome, I think that's what it's lacked in the past. There's been too many nameless session singers involved.  People may laugh at the idea of Rod Stweart but Rod Stewart does have a great voice and has sang some fantastic songs. I'd love to see it happen.
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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 09:22

Definitely Rod Stewart that would be great, such a superb gravely voice. Since the Olympic ceremony Mike holds so much more gravitas himself, maybe that'll turn the heads of any potential collaborators.

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Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 10:08

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 03 2012, 08:03)
Any singer who could bring a bit of gravitas to Mike's song writing is welcome, I think that's what it's lacked in the past. There's been too many nameless session singers involved.  

Oh, no. I think one of Mike's biggest problems is that everything has to be huge, no1 and World Class. He considers the size of a project before he even starts working on it. Will it be featured in a huge event? Will it be in a Disney movie?

Toby, with faceless session singers, do you mean Maggie Reilly and Barry Palmer? I think they had great and very original voices and adapted their singing to the material. Some of the low points of Mike's career (at least for me) feature "name" singers (Shadow on the Wall, Islands (!!!), Shine, Magic Touch).
Imagine the songs from Discovery sung by "name" guest singers. The title track sung by Coverdale, Talk About Your Life sung by Sara Brightman or Poison Arrows sung by Billy Joel. That may have lent some "gravitas" but the album would have three times more bland + the "album" feel would not have been there. I want to Mike Oldfield's new album to be good, not HUGE (although I wouldn't disapprov of the latter obviously!).

Also, anything that Elton John or Rod Stewart sings on becomes Elton John or Rod Stewart. He might as well has S**ng singing on the album. :-(


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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 11:08

Quote (larstangmark @ Aug. 03 2012, 10:08)
Oh, no. I think one of Mike's biggest problems is that everything has to be huge, no1 and World Class. He considers the size of a project before he even starts working on it. Will it be featured in a huge event? Will it be in a Disney movie?

I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

--------------
Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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Platinumpty Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 11:45

To give my tuppenceworth, I feel there are great "rock" sequences in MOs albums but there's been a fair bit of etsatz "rawk" as well (dreadful stuff like B Blues (if I remember correctly) on Guitars for example).

Truly great rock moments would have to include:

1. Piltdown Man on TB
2. Thunderstorm on HR (still in my top 3 MO moments but then I'm a little odd)
3. Ending of Ommadawn Part 1
4. Much of The Lake
5. Mount Teide live version (on The Complete and at Wembley)
6. Far Above the Clouds
7. Much of Amarok
8. Guitar solo on Tears of an Angel

yes, I struggled there to come up with a recent example but there's also the Hammond-y track on L+S (can't remember its name and dont have it to hand).

So he'll really have to rediscover his rock mojo to dodge the ersatz and kick out the jams.  But I look forward to hearing him succeed.
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equinoxe Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 11:52

Quote (BornInTheUK @ Aug. 03 2012, 11:45)
To give my tuppenceworth, I feel there are great "rock" sequences in MOs albums but there's been a fair bit of etsatz "rawk" as well (dreadful stuff like B Blues (if I remember correctly) on Guitars for example).

Truly great rock moments would have to include:

1. Piltdown Man on TB
2. Thunderstorm on HR (still in my top 3 MO moments but then I'm a little odd)
3. Ending of Ommadawn Part 1
4. Much of The Lake
5. Mount Teide live version (on The Complete and at Wembley)
6. Far Above the Clouds
7. Much of Amarok
8. Guitar solo on Tears of an Angel

yes, I struggled there to come up with a recent example but there's also the Hammond-y track on L+S (can't remember its name and dont have it to hand).

So he'll really have to rediscover his rock mojo to dodge the ersatz and kick out the jams.  But I look forward to hearing him succeed.

I would put to that list also a great FMO album with Taurus II (isn't it his most hard and prog rock track ever?) on top filled up with all those progressive hard-rock-folk tunes :)
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HuanCry Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 12:19

You've got to include ORABIDOO LIVE ! ... I love that piece   esp. Mike's guitar playing  (As performed at the TB2 concerts e.g. Albert Hall )  :)
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