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Question: Light + Shade :: Total Votes:114
Poll choices Votes Statistics
One of his best - a masterpiece 2  [1.75%]
It's very good - I love it 28  [24.56%]
It's okay - some tracks good/some not so good 49  [42.98%]
A bit sub-par really 21  [18.42%]
My God it's awful! 14  [12.28%]
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Topic: Light + Shade, Is it any good?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Oct. 11 2005, 13:15

I like L and S, but can somebody tell me where I've heard Romance before.

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I, ON THE OTHER HAND. AM A VICTIM OF YOUR CARNIVOUROUS LUNAR ACTIVITY.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2005, 21:54

Most likely being busked by a classical guitarist on the street or in a station. That's where I usually hear it, anyway.
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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2005, 22:56

Technically, this album has a little bit of everything for eveybody but it also therefore gives everybody something to not like about it. It is amazing how one album can be described in so many different ways, some are saying cheesy and dated, some are saying too modern. Some are saying too mellow, others are saying too techno. But even the staunchest fans of this album can agree on at least one point, and that is that it does NOT have the intricate instrument playing qualities of his earlier work. There is NOTHING wrong with Mike using computers to make his music except for the fact that he is much better at playing traditional instruments. As Elf said, he has protested against the 'soulless computerisation of music' in the past but my recollection of his words at that time was not so much complaining about the use of computers but the fact that the 'musicians' doing it did not know how to get a real note out of a real instrument hence the 'soullessness'. He feels that he is qualified to use computers because he knows how to play musical instruments, BUT maybe the young artists who ONLY know how to make music on computers have some kind of edge, THAT is what they are BEST at. Mike seems to have too many things on his plate perhaps, trying to be a Jack of all Trades but only a Master at One and he will lose those skills as well as he neglects them while doing other things. As much as I like L&S I find Mike's comment that it is his 'spiritually strongest record' laughable. Perhaps what he meant was that he is feeling at his emotionally strongest at this time. Although someone suggested somewhere that he may not be as happy as everyone thinks at this point in his life. Anyone who has ever suffered from depression or anxiety knows that no matter how good your life seems to those around you, no matter how many things are good and right in your life at the time, it has NO bearing whatsoever on your frame of mind. In fact, the expectation from others to be happy with what you have would most likely exacerbate the condition. There is no doubt in my mind, having people in my family who have suffered from depression or anxiety, myself included, that it never leaves you ever, no matter how much control you may have over it. So maybe this album is so 'confusing' because that is how Mike is feeling right now, 'I have everything I ever wanted, I should be deliriously happy but I'm not'. I know it is delving way too deep into it and it is none of our business what is going on in Mikes personal life but I think it could be an explaination for the completely opposite poles of opinion about this album. I say, ENJOY IT, as Mike won't be doing this or any other kind of music forever.

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I hate getting up early. I didn't even realise there were two 6 o'clocks in one day!
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Blind Faith Offline




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Posted: Oct. 17 2005, 21:28

I chose this topic to voice my opinion because it is not tainted by an "off the kuff" dismissal of L+S.

@Korgscrew This is what they gave me to practice on when I thought I could learn to play guitar, wish I could do half as good as this  :D

@Tubularbelle I like your train of thought Maybe it is too easy for us to make a final judgment on what is going on in the musician’s mind but I know it has something to do with what is in the music, on the other hand we must not forget that we as listeners also have something going on in our mind, hopefully.

I have given L+S a good basic listening and my personal conclusion matches this part of yours.

Quote
ENJOY IT, as Mike won't be doing this or any other kind of music forever.


I bought TB in December 1973 and since then every new recording following in a “nonchalant” way the evolution of the music. I remember being worried it was the end when too much time to my taste separated new albums. Because I never got into trade publications and before the internet every new album was a surprise I found while looking for the Mike Oldfield section at the record store.

From what I heard and read Mike enjoyed making this album and I intend to do the same, to me it has 2 qualities, it gets me into music styles I would not have experimented voluntarily (I was never that much into dance music)  and gives me something very interesting to listen to until the next MO album

:music:

There are some parts I love, some I like, some I hate but I won’t tell you because it is always changing with my moods or how far along I am on this drink.

The key here is ENJOY!!! Anyway you are the one with the remote in your hand.


:cool:
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Redvers Offline




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Posted: Oct. 19 2005, 09:29

I like it.

I've grown up with Mike and all his 'albums' get a spin from time to time - some more than others ( Incantations, Amarok and Songs) - and this will get its fair share of playings.

Is it any good? I play music because I enjoy hearing it and when I've played one of Mike's albums I always feel it has been time well spent and enjoy the experience. I'm enjoying listening to L and S - Sunset is glorious and there's only a couple of so so's.

As long as that's happening I'll keep buying and listening.

I work shift and we play a lot of music overnight. I play a lot of Mike and usually get a good response. Last night was no exception with L and S.


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Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: Feb. 26 2006, 20:54

Even my mum,who is not a MO fan,enjoyed a lot L+S,especially the Shade album(and she doesn't know that Shade is my fav,lol)  :cool:

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"But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014

"I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011
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clotty Offline




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Posted: Nov. 24 2006, 02:46

Have finally got a copy of Light and Shade and after just one listen I have to say I was a little dissappointed. I've been trying to decide why and then read some of the other opinions on this thread. I think the two that capture it for me are...

ELf: "There's no depth or scope..."

Dreamweaver: "It doesn't have the same 'wow' factor that TB did and still does." [or many of his other albums]

That's exactly it. The album didn't wow me and I didn't find the depth and interest that his music usually contains. I listened to Ommadawn straight afterwards and the difference was staggering. Even after all these years it still leaves me stunned (in a good way) every time I play it.

I'm hoping that L&S is going to be one of those that grows on me as I listen to it more. "Only time will tell"


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Clotty
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glasgow_tubular Offline




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Posted: Jan. 17 2007, 09:29

Is Light and Shade 100% computerised?

I would like him to make a more instrumental album like TB but obv not similar. It must be really difficult trying to get different songs that sound nothing like anything else.


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Jan. 19 2007, 15:12

I haven't listened to Light and Shade for ages - months. I'd tried hard with it, but found less and less depth the more I listened, and gave up.

But about a week ago I wasn't sure what I wanted to listen to, and pulled out Light and Shade. I really surprised myself, because I found myself enjoying almost all the 'Light' disc. So, suddenly curious, I put on 'Shade'. I struggled a bit more here, because those trancey-dancey rhythmic loops are not my cup of tea, but again I found myself enjoying it, and in some cases (Tears of An Angel', 'Ringscape' ) getting little shivers - always a good sign. Since then I've played both discs every day, and I'm delighted to discover that I was mostly wrong, all those months ago, and had dismissed it too readily.

I think up to this point I'd found it very difficult to see past the techno-orientation of so much of it; and for some reason that now seems less of a barrier than it did. Perhaps my expectations of it are now naturally lower than they were. But here's the shocking truth. I would rather listen to Light and Shade, warts and all, than any of those pop-song LP album B-sides he made in the 80s. (I never thought of the second side of an album as a B-side until Mike invented the concept, back then.)

There are little strokes of Oldfield magic in pretty well every track on Light and Shade, and really, for me, it's those things that count more than anything. So - a few details. I'm not very happy with the synthetic vocals - but then I'm not happy with most of the human vocals on Mike's albums. The male vocalists he chose, in particular, always did set my teeth on edge. I think I like the synthetic vocals at least as much, and probably more, than the vocals by those 80s singers.

I'm still troubled by what I'd call the 'prepackaged' feel of a lot of the background to Light and Shade. A lot of it is formulaic, and for me there is a feeling (perhaps inaccurate, but still a feeling) that he was content to let the computer just repeat stuff in the background over and over with small variations but very little in the way of life. But even so, riding over all this, and succeeding in spite of it, there are some passionate pieces of quitar playing, and some lovely tunes. The good bits are good enough to carry the dull bits. In fact, there are aspects of the album that really do represent Mike at his best - the guitar break in Tears of an Angel is as good as anything I'm ever likely to hear, for instance. And as for Ringscape... well, I'm going to give it a paragraph of its own.

Now OK. I'm biased. I have flown along that snow cavern so many times, alone and with friends, that I can't estimate the number. I'll never be able to listen to the music without being transported to that magical place. But the odd thing is that when I first heard Ringscape on Light and Shade, it seemed a letdown. I think I'd expected him to make it not just magnificent, but astoundingly, transcendentally magnificent - and he didn't. He just made it magnificent, and that didn't seem enough at the time. Well, it seems enough now. One thing I particularly love - listen to that cry at about 2 minutes in - it sounds like a saxotar, or something very like it. Is it actually a saxotar - that most reviled of Oldfield gimmicks (though I've never reviled it myself)? Well whatever it is, it is absolutely the right thing, there, at that moment, that the music needs. A real saxophone would have missed the mark completely. This weeping sound seems so perfectly evocative of the simultaneous grandeur and poignancy of the snowy owl's existence, forever sweeping, weeping, through the night, and into the snow cavern. It was worth Mike discovering the saxotar for this piece of music alone. It's absolutely, artistically, the most right, the most perfect thing to do: to place it here, at the perfect moment.

It seems to me that this is one of the glories of art - or at least, good art. You think you've got it sorted - maybe dismissed; then all it takes is a new insight, a new way of looking or listening, and bang - out of the window go all your preconceptions, and in fly a host of new, life-enriching experiences. It's also a lesson in humility. I was so sure that Light and Shade was one of the worst albums Mike's ever done. But I think I was wrong. I don't think it's one of his greatest - there's too much computer-generated formula for that - but now I can accept it for what it is, I can see there's a lot to enjoy in it. This is one of those occasions when it's just great to discover I was wrong.
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Harmono Offline




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Posted: Jan. 19 2007, 18:19

Quote (Alan D @ Jan. 19 2007, 15:12)
This is one of those occasions when it's just great to discover I was wrong.

Nice re-review Alan
Getting past the techno-orientation is and has been hard for many of us, also for the ones more familiar with that kind of genre. When L&S came out, someone wrote that we are dismissing it because we have too high expectations, and if it was by anybody else we would'nt be as dissapointed. In a way you have proved him/her right?

I recently listened to a work by Magnus Lindberg, a piece that really impressed me a few years back, but this time it sounded like nothing. I propably did'nt like the piece because this time my expectations were too high.
Was I wrong the first time or was I wrong now? Anyway - nice to hear more positive thoughts about Light and Shade.  Maybe it sounds awful again next week, don't know but I'll play it now.

 ;)
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Jan. 20 2007, 05:05

Quote (Harmono @ Jan. 19 2007, 23:19)
When L&S came out, someone wrote that we are dismissing it because we have too high expectations, and if it was by anybody else we would'nt be as dissapointed.

Whoever said that was exactly right, I think - and thanks for reminding me of it. Yes, that's a good idea - imagine how we'd respond if one of the musicians here at Tubular.net had offered 'Light and Shade' to us as a free download. We'd fall over ourselves to congratulate him, unable to believe what we were hearing. Think of some of the melodies alone: the exquisite 'sunset' tune (no matter that there's a nod to Sibelius - he makes it his own), the haunting melody of 'Tears of an Angel'; and I'll even add the less obvious tunefulness, but driving rhythmic power of 'Resolution', which I often find myself recalling. Where are you going to find themes like that, except in a composition by Mike Oldfield?
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Moz Offline




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Posted: Jan. 20 2007, 05:55

I was going to make the comparison about someone here potentially releasing L&S - I agree with the reaction.

There were certainly some very bad tracks in the 80s.  But let's not forget the 90s - The Millennium Bell is my least favourite Oldfield album by a mile.  Compare L&S with TMB - which is better?   Erm...

I'm very excited about Mike's current project (his next album).  It's understandable for people to want another Ommadawn, Amarok etc, but I think that if Mike only did long instrumentals and no short tracks at all, some of the long tracks wouldn't be as good.  Even some of the albums that have no short tracks don't have a good part 2 (in my opinion) - such as part 2 of both Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn.  OK I do like bits of them but they meander too much.  They're simply not all that special to me.  Even Tubular Bells Part 2 has some low points as far as I'm concerned.  Taurus I, Taurus II and Music From The Balcony aren't too good either - and First Steps from L&S is a sort-of long instrumental, but I find that pretty dull.

Sure, if Mike always wrote music like Tubular Bells Part 1, Ommadawn Part 1, Incantations (except for Part 2), Crises, Amarok, and The Wind Chimes... I'd be very disappointed if he unexpectedly released an album like Earth Moving.  But Mike has done quite a few short to medium length tracks that are enjoyable.  The abundance of short tracks on L&S might have put people off more than the electronic style - but the two together resulted in a recipe for disaster for the long-term fans.

Sometimes I wish people would take the music for what it is, rather than comparing it to other music by the same artist from days gone by.  But people always yearn for the next classic album.  Musicians have to try new things - L&S is a prime example of an album that many people wrote off early on, but it's good to know that after a period of time people can come back to it and enjoy it.

It's an impossible situation: either the artist copies their past successes and is labelled "unoriginal", or tries new music and is criticised for not staying true to their roots.  I wish people would just enjoy the music!

(and this isn't aimed negatively at you, Alan - quite positively actually because you gave it a chance in the end!;) :D


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Jan. 20 2007, 06:32

Quote (Moz @ Jan. 20 2007, 10:55)
Sometimes I wish people would take the music for what it is, rather than comparing it to other music by the same artist from days gone by.

Actually, I'm not one of those people - although I love early Mike, after a short period of uncertainty I found it easy to love Cyber-Mike too (TSODE and Tr3sLunas), and I think his experimentation is exciting to follow, even when I don't necessarily like the result. In the case of Light and Shade, I really was trying to take the music for what it is, but just couldn't like most of it.

So in my case the issue isn't one of 'wishing it were like Ommadawn', but more simply one of 'giving it time'.
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Moz Offline




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Posted: Jan. 20 2007, 07:19

actually Alan, that wasn't really aimed at you, as you did give it a chance in the end (as you said).  your post just reminded me of the numerous people who heard L&S, hated it, and basically gave up on Mike there and then.  OK, maybe an exaggeration, but I remember those posts when L&S came out - first impressions were not good.

Most of my post was pretty rambling though, I think you organise your thoughts a little better than I do :)


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Jan. 20 2007, 10:32

Quote (Moz @ Jan. 20 2007, 12:19)
actually Alan, that wasn't really aimed at you

Oh no, I realised that, Ben. But it occurred to me after reading your post, that I hadn't made myself completely clear in that respect - so that anyone else reading the posts might not be sure just where I was coming from.
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Guilty Offline




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Posted: April 09 2007, 10:05

I'll have to track this down and give my thoughts on it. I had heard about this release but never got it. Sounds like it was OK.
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Dec. 06 2007, 19:21

Quote (Alan D @ Jan. 19 2007, 15:12)
It seems to me that this is one of the glories of art - or at least, good art. You think you've got it sorted - maybe dismissed; then all it takes is a new insight, a new way of looking or listening, and bang - out of the window go all your preconceptions, and in fly a host of new, life-enriching experiences. It's also a lesson in humility. I was so sure that Light and Shade was one of the worst albums Mike's ever done. But I think I was wrong. I don't think it's one of his greatest - there's too much computer-generated formula for that - but now I can accept it for what it is, I can see there's a lot to enjoy in it. This is one of those occasions when it's just great to discover I was wrong.

Alan, you almost make me wish I hadn't liked L+S on first listen just so I could experience such a rediscovery. I turn to a lot of L+S pieces for frequent play, and I hadn't listened to the entire work in a few months. Just today, I did and I'm still loving it.


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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Dec. 07 2007, 01:56

Quote (Sweetpea @ Dec. 07 2007, 00:21)
Alan, you almost make me wish I hadn't liked L+S on first listen just so I could experience such a rediscovery.

I must admit that I revel in rediscoveries. Nothing better than discovering that something I'd written off as hopeless turns out, after all, to have been just a blind spot of my own. My life has been studded with events of that sort - so much so that I've become suspicious of my first reactions to pretty well anything, if they're negative. For years I thought I hated opera, until I heard some Wagner almost by accident. I was convinced that  abstract painting was a con, perpetrated by those who couldn't really paint, until the day when I unexpectedly found myself overwhelmed by an encounter that broke through all my prejudice. Recently, after years of considering Elgar's choral music to be impossibly inaccessible, I made a breakthrough so complete that at the moment I hardly want to listen to anything else.

The downside, of course, is that it can make me quite miserable to want to enjoy something but be unable to - as in the case of Light and Shade, in the first few months after its release.
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Mark Offline




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Posted: Dec. 07 2007, 03:08

I'm in total agreement with Elf. I found both discs to be rubbish, and a total middle finger to his fans. Mike has slagged J.M.Jarre off for years, and then he trotts out what sounds mostly like a J.M.Jarre. tribute album, with the difference being that while Jarre is a master of his trade (yes, I'm a fan), Mike produced something rather inept, dated and amateurish.

As for the games, Mike did a fair job of bigging them up graphically, but couldn't deliver in the end. I found both games dated and dull. Having said that, there are plenty of games I consider complete garbage that went on to sell millions (GTA etc), which tells me that some people will buy anything based on reputation, and the author of the game/music/painting/"art instalation" (gawd helpus), will at times take the piss.
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MauroSV Offline




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Posted: Dec. 23 2007, 12:30

For me - this album is very good. It contains really wonderfull tracks. "First steps", "Tears of an angel" and "Ringscape" are outstanding! I love them!
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