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Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 25 2009, 16:49 Quote (dazzler @ June 25 2009, 11:14) @Caveman ... wasn't Guilty recorded with most of the musicians Mike used on Platinum? Another reason why I would include it there. Guilty was on the Incantations tour[1], wasn't it? I have no idea regarding the musicians, though. And even though the musical style of Guilty is radically different from that of Incantations (though maybe not... part 3 does have a synth rock section, but it's a far cry from the disco beat), it is from around that time. It would be a nice way to "link" one album to the other in a smooth fashion, a la "conceptual continuity". And that's also a good argument to put the extras on a separate disc -- following the massive epic build-up of part 4 with the "70's game show theme tune" sound of Guilty would probably be jarring even for me. References ----------------- [1] ^ Mike Oldfield, Exposed, Virgin Records, 1979 -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

dazzler Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: June 2009 Posted: June 25 2009, 17:00 I looked it up (12" sleeve of Guilty and inner sleeve of Platinum). Engineer: both times Kurt Munkacsi (also engineering Philip Glass) Bass: both times Neil Jason That's a weak match, I agree. Could it be both songs were recorded in the same US studio? I vaguely read about some kind of connection ... It doesn't matter: we agree Guilty was inbetween Incantations and Platinum (but after the Take 4 ep I believe). Its disco beat connects it with Platinum in my experience. But the musical theme connects it with Incantations, that's right. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 26 2009, 05:09 Platinum was recorded at various times in Blue Rock and Electric Lady in New York and Mike's Througham and Denham studios so there's a possibilty that at least some of side one was recorded at the same time as Guilty and there are certainly some tracks that use the same musicians although it would have to be the sessions at Electric Lady.As for side two as far as i can tell Woodhenge is from Througham and i know from the Wendy Roberts interview that Into Wonderland/Sally and  i got Rhythm are from Denham.Not sure where Punkadiddle was recorded.  So that puts us squarely between Incantations and Platinums release date.I agree that Guilty probably wouldn't sound right straight after side 4 but if it's on a seperate disc this would be a problem.However sytlistcally it has more in common with Platinum.Decisions decisions. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: June 27 2009, 10:56 Quote (dazzler @ June 25 2009, 12:51) I thought Vivaldi in C was recorded in 1976. In my imagination Mike could have played around with the idea to record his own versions of classical "hits". Remember The William Tell Ouverture (also from 1976). That's the period where Mike was not releasing very much. He might have been doing some re-sourcing by shifting through some classical themes and modern composers. Just like he did with the traditionals before and after. I think it makes sense because Incantations definitely has a classical "approach", especially in part one. I'd like to believe Incantations is also influenced by the work of Vangelis and Philip Glass (Mike covered North Star on Platinum and used the same engineer as Philip Glass worked with). I experience Incantations as some kind of four seasons album. That's the Vivaldi link again. Part one is spring (joyful strings - very classical) .. Part two is summer (some Vangelis influences - indian song) ... Part three is fall (with the first 8.40 minutes being my most favourite Mike Oldfield excerpt ever) ... Part three is winter (with the icy, minimalistic approach) ... All IMHO ofcourse ... but the four seasons link works for me. ps. I put Guilty on Platinum because of the "disco" beat connection. Dazzler I like your "four seasons theory".I can see how that works,especialy in relation to his Vivaldi pre-occupation leading up to it`s recording. R.E. the Vangelis thing.I`m a huge fan of Vangelis,but the only time I`ve ever heard Mike mention him he was pretty damning to say the least.I`d be very surprised if he was ever influenced by him put it that way.Philip Glass on the other hand I certainly agree with.But I would also add the composer Steve Reich and in particular his composition   Music For 18 Musicians Back to top

dazzler Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: June 2009 Posted: June 27 2009, 11:12 Vangelis is omnipresent on the first minutes of part 2. The spacy synthesizer sounds ... is obviously Vangelised. Think about Vangelis late 70s spacy albums ... And you're right about Steve Reich. Mike wasn't too keen on Jean-Michel Jarre either, I noticed. part one (spring): very colourful, birds and flowers part two (summer): lazy rhythm and indian summer song part three (fall): starts with some kind of harvest dance (just like Vivaldi did in his first movement of fall) part four (winter): the last vocal part always reminds me of newyears eve ... but that's because of the fact I got The Complete 2LP under the Christmas tree in 1985. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 29 2009, 08:18 Christmas 85 was a good year as i got The Complete that year too.I now have 3 copies.The one from 85 (complete with the extract from TB actually using the Boxed mix),the cd version and a signed copy which will never be played from my children for fathers day last year.  Regarding your 4 seasons theory on Incantations.I can definately see where you are coming from in part.Part 1 at the very beginning does sound like a spring morning full of promise.Part 2 again sounds like a morning but the choral bits are very summer evening.Reminds me of being in a great cathedral listening to choral practice.Very peacefull. Part 3 has always put me in mind of a medieval banquet at the start.But to me it always felt it should be in the winter.  Part 4 again feels like summer. So i sort of get it in part. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

dazzler Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: June 2009 Posted: June 30 2009, 02:36 I went through parts 1 and 2 last night. Part one is the best of the whole album. It's a composition that runs from the opening till the end without any minor sections. The flute arrangements are very good. The way the melodies are woven into one another. I also like the soft beat (kinda hand clapping) with the almost church-esque vocal chants. It's one of Mikes "soundtracks to literature". One of the album sides I played while reading books when I was a teenager. Also a possible soundtrack to the images I fantasized when I took this piece to bed with me. Part two is half good. There's the space-like opening, very Vangelis like. And the section where the music gets very peaceful and quiet. At one point the music spirals down slowly, as if the listener would fall asleep. From this point on part two loses my interest. Mike builds it up again, creating a kind of bridge towards the Hiawatha song. I'm not so keen on that bit and the Hiawatha song is nice, but goes on too long. Maddy Prior has a rather sharp voice and listening to her for too long, gives me a kind of headache. I always wondered wich part of Incantations would be the Hymn to Diana bit? And what are the credits? Is it an existing piece, like the extract from Hiawatha is? Are both pieces connected with each other? I also listened to Pipetune (Cuckoo Song b-side). In hindsight it's easy to place it into part two of Incantations. But I always wondered how fans welcomed it as that weird b-side. In 1977 (Cuckoo's Song release) fans weren't familiar yet with Incantations. In fact Pipetune is rather different than much of Mike Music between 1973-1976. Back to top

captainjjb Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: Feb. 2006 Posted: June 22 2010, 07:46 Incantations – we want a  Deluxe Edition! Whilst we are all enjoying the delightful new editions of Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn, can we think forward to the next release – a major re-release of Incantations.  Of course there is no guarantee that this will actually happen, however if we all express interest then hopefully it might help.   Personally it is my favourite of all Mike’s output.  An extraordinary piece of music, highly original, challenging, and uplifting.  It is the natural successor to the “big three” which have already had a major re-release and is the last of Mike’s music from this particular mode which he created for himself back in the 1970’s.   His next album, Platinum, would show a very different character emerge. Come on everyone, keep this topic at the top of the list!  We NEED a deluxe Incantations! Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 22 2010, 08:28 Those who want a deluxe version of Incantations should be made to wear dorky clothes and stand on a beach looking wistful for unspecified periods! Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 22 2010, 08:43 Quote (nightspore @ June 22 2010, 08:28) Those who want a deluxe version of Incantations should be made to wear dorky clothes and stand on a beach looking wistful for unspecified periods! I'm OK with that.  I've done it before.   The thing with a deluxe Incantations is, there surely won't be any room for any extras.  Just a new mix, the old mix and a 5.1 mix.  They'd need a 4th disc for any bonus cuts, demo/alternate versions, etc.  I'm not sure I can see a 4 CD version of Incantations happening.   Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 22 2010, 13:07 Quote (familyjules @ June 22 2010, 08:43) Quote (nightspore @ June 22 2010, 08:28) Those who want a deluxe version of Incantations should be made to wear dorky clothes and stand on a beach looking wistful for unspecified periods! I'm OK with that.  I've done it before.   Damn! I was gonna say exactly that! I just hope the execs will do us the big favour of, somehow, bringing some extras with Incantations; there are definitely a bunch of great ones. I say, get rid of the "new mix" thing! The Incantations mix is already great, why do we need another one? -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

captainjjb Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: Feb. 2006 Posted: June 22 2010, 13:52 Quote (familyjules @ June 22 2010, 08:43) Quote (nightspore @ June 22 2010, 08:28) Those who want a deluxe version of Incantations should be made to wear dorky clothes and stand on a beach looking wistful for unspecified periods! I'm OK with that.  I've done it before.   The thing with a deluxe Incantations is, there surely won't be any room for any extras.  Just a new mix, the old mix and a 5.1 mix.  They'd need a 4th disc for any bonus cuts, demo/alternate versions, etc.  I'm not sure I can see a 4 CD version of Incantations happening.   Jules Just a new mix, the old mix and a 5.1 mix?  Just?  isn't that reason enough?   This is the best thing Mike ever did for some of us.  Is no-one out there enthusastic about getting Mike to do as good a job with Incantations as he's done on the first 3 of his pieces? Back to top

sparrow Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: June 2010 Posted: June 22 2010, 15:40 Is Incantations currently out of print on CD?? HMV does not list it and Amazon has some for crazy prices.  Deluxe ed.  ??  Bring it on. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 23 2010, 04:09 Quote (captainjjb @ June 22 2010, 13:52)  Is no-one out there enthusastic about getting Mike to do as good a job with Incantations as he's done on the first 3 of his pieces? Abso-bloody-lutely!It's the 4th of the Big Four.I know a lot of people talk about the first 3 as being like the holy trinity but i would class Incantations as being from the same era.The only difference is he went through therapy half way through.Although i must confess to not being convinced about the Ommadawn remix yet.But then i haven't found the time to put it on the iPod and go for a walk to have a really good listen.Dunno about anyone else but i find i need to go walking in the countryside and listen to Mike's peices on headphones to really get into them in detail.Summer's here so should get time soon. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 23 2010, 04:23 Quote (captainjjb @ June 22 2010, 13:52) Just a new mix, the old mix and a 5.1 mix?  Just?  isn't that reason enough?   This is the best thing Mike ever did for some of us.  Is no-one out there enthusastic about getting Mike to do as good a job with Incantations as he's done on the first 3 of his pieces? Well yes, OK, I would be happy enough with that and I do want to see it happen. I just really want Pipe Tune in decent audio, plus the alternate Incantations section from Space Movie too. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 23 2010, 04:24 Quote (The Caveman @ June 23 2010, 04:09) It's the 4th of the Big Four.I know a lot of people talk about the first 3 as being like the holy trinity but i would class Incantations as being from the same era. I totally agree.  It's always been about the first 4 in my opinion, and Incantations is second only to Ommadawn for me. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

hibbo Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: April 2006 Posted: June 23 2010, 06:25 Deluxe for sure. I hope he adds on some of the unreleased tracks from the "Reflections" documentary which were the blueprint of what was to become "Incantations". Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 23 2010, 09:29 That'd be good.The different version of the Hiawatha section on the Space Movie would be good too of course.In Changeling he talks of his original intention of having an actual incantation on Incantations and from the lyrics on the Space Movie i'd say this is it. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 24 2010, 04:06 Quote (The Caveman @ June 23 2010, 09:29) That'd be good.The different version of the Hiawatha section on the Space Movie would be good too of course.In Changeling he talks of his original intention of having an actual incantation on Incantations and from the lyrics on the Space Movie i'd say this is it. How are we defining "incantation" then?  Because I thought the two vocal sections on Incantations were...uh...incantations. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 24 2010, 04:34 Incantation as in ritual magic as an invocation.Hiawatha was taking Longfellow and setting it to music as was Ode To Cynthia for Ben Jonson. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

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