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Question: How to improve Ommadawn, side/part 1? :: Total Votes:54
Poll choices Votes Statistics
You can't. It is perfection as it is. 35  [64.81%]
You can't improve it because it is terrible to begin with. 1  [1.85%]
Give it the "Tubular Bells 2003" re-production treatment 7  [12.96%]
Make it longer 7  [12.96%]
Make it shorter 1  [1.85%]
Add a satirical British prime minister speech to the climax. 3  [5.56%]
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Topic: How to improve Ommadawn, side/part 1?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Jan. 14 2005, 06:54

You do? Interestingly, there were quite a couple of bits in Incantations that sound rough and sharp to my ears, like they were done a bit sloppily, but that actually contributes a lot, making the album less "mechanic" in its repetition. I dunno, it's an odd thing - maybe the kind of "sound" the album has always sounded a bit creepy to me.

Ommadawn, to me, clearly sounds like it was made to be thoroughly flawless - but like Mike was testing the possibilities in a "let's see how far we can go with this" way, not in an obsessive Tubular Bells 2003 way, if you understand me.


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familyjules Offline




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Posted: Jan. 14 2005, 07:51

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Jan. 14 2005, 06:54)
Interestingly, there were quite a couple of bits in Incantations that sound rough and sharp to my ears, like they were done a bit sloppily, but that actually contributes a lot, making the album less "mechanic" in its repetition. I dunno, it's an odd thing - maybe the kind of "sound" the album has always sounded a bit creepy to me.

Ommadawn, to me, clearly sounds like it was made to be thoroughly flawless - but like Mike was testing the possibilities in a "let's see how far we can go with this" way, not in an obsessive Tubular Bells 2003 way, if you understand me.

I've yet to notice any sloppy or rough bits in Incantations.  But I did for years find the album a little too mechanical.  However, I've been playing this album a LOT this past 6 months and have really got into the heart of it, so much so that it has long ceased to sound mechanical or edgy.  It's definitely been my album of the year so far.

Ommadawn an exercise in flawless album making circa 1975?  Well like you say it's hardly at the expense of soul and passion, like for many TB2003 was.  It certainly has less amateurish moments than TB or HR, but I can't say that this is a facet of Ommadawn I ever think about because I'm too busy being charmed, excited or thrilled by the musical contents.

Jules


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Phil Moakes Offline




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Posted: Jan. 14 2005, 12:35

Quote (familyjules @ Jan. 14 2005, 09:16)
[quote=Phil Moakes,Jan. 13 2005, 17:27]  I do hear some very human, very dynamic and very organic music making (a miracle for what is essentially a one-man band), and maybe this is what you mean by 'raw'.  I tend to reserve 'raw' for punk rock, garage bands, live albums and shaky demo recordings myself!

And yesterday I saw Incantations describes as 'simple' and today it's Ommadawn's turn.  Am I surrounded by rocket scientists and brain surgeons?!?!  This music is 'simple'?  

I didn't describe the music as either raw or simple. I said that it (Ommadawn) gets at something that is raw and simple i.e it evokes some sort of inspiring fresh air effect. This is partially because the mix (certainly for Part 1) leaves space. There are some passages with instruments mixed so far back, you might wonder if they are just echoes from another muted track. Anyway, I have no arguement. Ommadawn is a great work. And I listen to it probably every day.
Incantations - loved it originally. Got keen on Part 3 and lost it on Pts 1,2. Recently started to do Pt 4 again.
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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: Jan. 16 2005, 17:33

I think some of the tunes on Incantations are rather complex, but the layout overall is simple.

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Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
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DanishDonJuan Offline




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Posted: Jan. 17 2005, 06:55

I would vote on none of the above if I had a choice. but I chose the first, to call Ommadawn perfection.
I don't see the album at perfect and there is some part of it I could think of ways to improve. But I feel the length is perfect, and I love the album.


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If every road we traveled were the easy, we would be weak, and would eventually think every road difficult.
If every road we traveled tough, we would be strong and eventually think no road to be difficult.

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Baggiesfaninessex Offline




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Posted: Mar. 25 2005, 15:38

Ommadawn Side 1 is as near as you'll get to the finest 20 minutes of music from the 70s. The only other pieces that could rival it in my opinion, are Gates of Delerium by Yes or Supper's Ready by Genesis.

Unfortunately, Ommadawn Side 2 is like a B Side to Side 1. They simply don't compare.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Mar. 25 2005, 20:36

Side 2 is very, very atmospheric! There is the bagpipe solo, that's most probably my favourite thing in the entire record. To me, Part 1 has always been way too busy trying hard to blow me away, and thus, it fails to cause a real impression. Part 2 just drifts by and captivates me more, I think.

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Baggiesfaninessex Offline




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Posted: Mar. 27 2005, 14:00

You're right - Side 2 is very atmospheric. However, that comment in isolation suggests that Side 1 isn't atmospheric and I couldn't agree with that. The build up to the finale and climax of Side 1 is one of the most emotional, angry and beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard.

I find Side 2 like a calm after the storm if you like. It is very slow, soporific and dare I say it, verging on plodding for the first 10 minutes. It does improve as it approaches another lively climax during the last 5 minutes (not including Horse Song) but unfortunately, although I love the way Side 2 is lovingly crafted together with very strong Celtic instrumentation, the melodies and structure are not as strong as Side 1.

Great album altogether though and my personal favourite.


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Mar. 27 2005, 19:00

Quote (T4 @ Mar. 28 2005, 03:00)
You're right - Side 2 is very atmospheric. However, that comment in isolation suggests that Side 1 isn't atmospheric and I couldn't agree with that. The build up to the finale and climax of Side 1 is one of the most emotional, angry and beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard.


I agree with you about the side 1 climax, but I've always taken 'atmospheric' to mean something slower, perhaps more relaxed like Hergest Ridge. Atmospheric isn't the word I would use for the side 1 climax: thunderous perhaps, awesome definately.  :)


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Baggiesfaninessex Offline




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Posted: Mar. 27 2005, 23:04

Quote (raven4x4x @ Mar. 27 2005, 19:00)
Quote (T4 @ Mar. 28 2005, 03:00)
You're right - Side 2 is very atmospheric. However, that comment in isolation suggests that Side 1 isn't atmospheric and I couldn't agree with that. The build up to the finale and climax of Side 1 is one of the most emotional, angry and beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard.


I agree with you about the side 1 climax, but I've always taken 'atmospheric' to mean something slower, perhaps more relaxed like Hergest Ridge. Atmospheric isn't the word I would use for the side 1 climax: thunderous perhaps, awesome definately.  :)

I don't know - maybe I'm being a pedant! Lol  :/

I simply thought you can have a stormy atmosphere (side 1) and a calm atmosphere (side 2). To me, the whole album is atmospheric but maybe there are better adjectives which sum up individual parts more appropriately.  :)


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familyjules Offline




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Posted: Mar. 28 2005, 06:38

Quote (T4 @ Mar. 27 2005, 14:00)
I love the way Side 2 is lovingly crafted together with very strong Celtic instrumentation, the melodies and structure are not as strong as Side 1.

I think side 1 is beyond comparison as a dynamic, beautifully constructed genius piece of music composition.  On any other album side 2 would sound really strong though - the duet with Paddy and the rousing finale and then the Horse song - all absolutely terrific and great favourites of mine.

Ommadawn is the zenith of Mike's achievements to my ears.  I think Incantations is more impressive in terms of structure and breadth, but Ommadawn beats it for beauty and joy.

Jules


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Baggiesfaninessex Offline




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Posted: Mar. 28 2005, 06:45

Quote (familyjules @ Mar. 28 2005, 06:38)
I think side 1 is beyond comparison as a dynamic, beautifully constructed genius piece of music composition.  On any other album side 2 would sound really strong though

Jules, I agree. I think you sum it up rather well there.

As for Incantations, Side 4 is my favourite and is beautifully constructed too. It just can't quite match Ommadawn Side 1 though for that spine-tingle factor.


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Mar. 28 2005, 19:07

After listening to Ommadawn again yesterday, my opinion hasn't changed. I'm just not a big fan of the album (and yet I truly love Discovery, strange hey!  .  ;) ). The ending of Part 1 still sends shivers up my spine, I quite enjoy the section in Part 2 with the acoustic guitar and pipes and I've always liked On Horseback, but the rest is merely OK to my ears.

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Baggiesfaninessex Offline




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Posted: Mar. 28 2005, 20:55

I think you are merely summing up the beauty of Mike's music. He seems to cater for a variety of tastes and for that, he is admired and respected. I suspect a lot has to do with when we all, as individuals, heard Mike for the first time.

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Rob Miles Offline




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Posted: July 10 2005, 17:18

Hello everyone

You know me- I'd improve it by...

Making it the national anthem for the UK
Killing anyone who ever says anything rude about it (ie "it's not perfect")
Forbid overflying aircraft whilst anyone below is playing it
Poisoning that bloody yappy dog over the road
Putting cheesewire across two lamp-posts to get those motorbikes

But seriously folks...

Get rid of that Pt2 11'11" error on the bloody Heyworth remaster
Credit Paddy properly for his contribution

That's about it.
Rob
:-)?
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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: July 11 2005, 14:33

Quote (Rob Miles @ July 10 2005, 17:18)
...cheesewire....

This must be a part of British cuisine I am not familiar with. I would imagine it is very hard on the teeth. It could explain the "Austin Powers British dentistry stereotype".

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"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: July 12 2005, 04:27

Quote (Rob Miles @ July 10 2005, 17:18)
Get rid of that Pt2 11'11" error on the bloody Heyworth remaster

I have the Boxed version so don't know about this.  What happens at 11'11" on the remaster?

Jules


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Ostach Offline




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Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 16:39

How to improve Ommadawn part one?

eee..... impossible...

pure perfection


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moonchildhippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 18:56

Do NOTHING!!!  Ommadawn is 100% Perfection .  :)  :D

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Craig Evans Offline




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Posted: Sep. 13 2005, 08:02

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Jan. 14 2005, 06:54)
Ommadawn, to me, clearly sounds like it was made to be thoroughly flawless - but like Mike was testing the possibilities in a "let's see how far we can go with this" way, not in an obsessive Tubular Bells 2003 way, if you understand me.

Quote (moonchildhippy @ Aug. 29 2005, 18:56)
Do NOTHING!!!  Ommadawn is 100% Perfection
I think it was a very good idea that Mike made "Ommadawn" as perfect as possable so that there is hardly any reason for it to be improved on afterwards.  :)  :)


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