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Topic: Hergest Ridge Deluxe, An Ultimate Edition< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Milamber Offline




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Posted: July 01 2010, 03:26

Quote (Cooper Roy @ July 01 2010, 11:46)
Quote (milamber @ June 30 2010, 04:14)
That makes two of us old bean.
Having a shufty "across the pond" any time soon.

Good to hear. That's you and me,darn ta Silver's gaff,quick duel in the garden - then to the victor the spoils:Tea,scones and lashings of ginger beer don't ya know!   ;)

Where, pray tell ,will one be domiciled?

CR

Aye the pond be big and pistols at dawn would have me chuffed.
Silvers gaff is another story.
Cor Blimey Grosvenor twas referring to those damn Yankies .
And the tales we yet may tell.
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: July 01 2010, 04:43

Quote (wiga @ July 01 2010, 02:43)
It annhilates the bass rif. Why?

For me, the bass line is central to the story - it's like it's really talking to you, and then it gets rudely interrupted by this brassy guitar, - for what appears no other reason than to draw attention to itself.  :/

If the bass line here isn't particularly that significant to you Ugo then the guitar might not jar as much.

I agree about the bass line - it's the heart of Hergest Ridge.  It's another reason I prefer the Boxed mix - because that bass line becomes more prominent when the other layers have been stripped back.

Jules


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: July 01 2010, 18:48

@ wiga: sorry, you misunderstood me a little bit. It's not that I don't like the bass line in that point. I just think that it doesn't have that much importance as a single element, but I feel it is more a part of a whole. If Mike decided that the acoustic guitar going plonk-plonk-plonk [that's how I hear it, and I like it a lot] was going to be a part of that whole, well, then he clearly didn't think that the bass line was "central to the story", as you say. Otherwise he would have stripped everything but the bass line - he would have emphasized the bass line in the remix, instead of raising the volume of another instrument (the acoustic guitar) which was barely heard in the original version. On my Pioneer 5.1 setup, the bass line comes out very clearly from the subwoofer and it's not 'overpowered' by anything. Anyway, this is just my opinion, and we all know that opinions are opinions. :)

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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 02 2010, 04:46

The bass line is important  because it drives this section towards the crescendo. I like it prominent as it's been for 30 odd years. Now it's been remixed, the pulling forward of this "plonk-plonk-plonk" plonking (at 12.12) just feels like a bit of tinkering and messing around at the mixing table - gone too far!!

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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: July 02 2010, 11:00

Quote (wiga @ July 02 2010, 10:46)
The bass line is important  because it drives this section towards the crescendo.

?? What are you talking about? There is no crescendo in that section, at least not in the classical sense! All of it, from 12:12 up to 13:24, is very static - at least I've always heard it that way - and 13:24 is where the crescendo actually starts. Anyway, again, to me it's not just the bass line that drives the section, but it's rather a combination of things. You may notice that the organ is playing the same notes as the bass line... so, if there's really a driving element, that would be bass+organ+piano. The plonking acoustic guitar sounds nice to me because it gives to the section a sense of urgency, of expectation, which wasn't really there in the original (1974) mix.


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 02 2010, 15:56

Ugo; - I'm talking about the base line section 12.12 - 15.10. This bass line remains there throughout , driving the momentum from beginning to the end.  I particularly like how it works with the lead guitar during the crescendo, to me that combination is quite fantastic. The plonkity plonk guitar, comes in at 12.12 and leaves at 14.06, stumbling a bit at the end - but prominent for far too long. I can see what you mean by the plonk-plonk-plonk giving a sense of urgency and expectation, and I've tried to like it, but it's way too brash and out of place for me.

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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: July 02 2010, 17:40

Quote (wiga @ July 02 2010, 21:56)
I can see what you mean by the plonk-plonk-plonk giving a sense of urgency and expectation, and I've tried to like it, but it's way too brash and out of place for me.

Of course I'm not trying to convince you to like it. I like it, you don't. Syd B. likes Mars Volta, I don't. :) As I said above, opinions are opinions - Horace, a very long time ago, said it so cleverly: De gustibus non disputandum est. But that's not the main point of this. The main point of this is estabilishing whether the bass line is a "leader" (as you think) or an element in a whole (as I think). Well, the more I listen to that section, the more I'm convinced that both of us may be right, and neither of us is. :) I'll try to explain myself more clearly. From 12:12 to 13:24, the bass has clearly a melodic purpose - the fact that the organ follows the bass note by note (and vice versa, obviously) proves that the bass part was written melodically. But if the bass line was actually conceived as a "leader", then it would have been louder than anything else. Instead there is an organ doing exactly the same thing as it, even in the original 1974 mix - and this has never been changed! So, at best, we may talk about a "joint leadership". :) At 13:24, the bass line (always IMHO, of course) loses its melodic purpose and it becomes an ostinato - one of the many beautiful ostinatos that Mike has written over the years [heck, there's even one in MotS! :cool:] - because it does not carry a melody anymore, as the main melody is being carried, first with long notes then with shorter ones, by other things (organs and keyboards and guitars). So, what I think is that from 13:24 onwards the bass line not only doesn't "lead" anything,  but it doesn't even drive anything in that particular section: the driving forces in that section (from 13:24 to 15:10) become, gradually, the organ, the keyboards and the guitars... before the whole thing culminates in the choir, and, of course, in those majestic tubular bells. :D Sorry about getting a little bit techincal here, I'm a musician and I am putting all this in purely musical terms. If you are putting it in terms of "feel", then it's rather obvious that our opinions should diverge widely.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 03 2010, 04:48

Quote (Ugo @ July 02 2010, 17:40)
The main point of this is estabilishing whether the bass line is a "leader" (as you think) or an element in a whole (as I think). Well, the more I listen to that section, the more I'm convinced that both of us may be right, and neither of us is. :)

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

The bass line plays a leading role, so the more I hear of it and less obscured it is the better.

If it were an actor it might be Tom Hanks in The Da Vinci Code.


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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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Sammy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 20 2011, 12:42

Quote (Ghostmojo @ June 25 2010, 19:36)
I'm still digesting this lot but the one thing I am certain about is I do not like the new cover. The thing with going back and restoring old friends and giving them a new lease of life is that everything about the work should be represented as was. Perhaps MO's disappointment with HR and the remix etc. could be brought together in one release i.e. either  the 'boxed' or 2010 mixes (or both) have the new cover - but the original 1974 stick with the old cover. It might not be the greatest piece of album design but it does have a very 70s flavour to it particularly because of the fish-eye lens photo. The new image is too slick and speaks of the google-earth culture rather than the fired-earth culture of the early 70s...

Bumping up an old topic here, but... I'm with you on this.

There was nothing wrong IMO with the old cover - it was more "earthy" and went rather well with the music... I for one would also certainly have preferred the 1974 design on the front cover of the Deluxe edition. Bootleg the Irish wolfhound n'all! The old design had thast whiff of oddity and springtime light around it that I miss...

Not a big deal however - as long as the original 1974 mix was finally made available on cd.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 20 2011, 18:39

Quote (Sammy @ Aug. 20 2011, 18:42)
Not a big deal however - as long as the original 1974 mix was finally made available on cd.

The mix on the second cd of HR Deluxe Edition is not really the original 1974 mix. Apart from the fact that it's taken straight from a vinyl copy (you can hear a click at the very start of Part Two), various sections have been slightly re-touched. The most evident change from the "real" original 1974 mix is the snares after 4:12 in Part One, which are very clearly heard on the "real" mix - their volume level is much lower here. :)

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Sammy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 21 2011, 13:46

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 21 2011, 01:39)
Quote (Sammy @ Aug. 20 2011, 18:42)
Not a big deal however - as long as the original 1974 mix was finally made available on cd.

The mix on the second cd of HR Deluxe Edition is not really the original 1974 mix. Apart from the fact that it's taken straight from a vinyl copy (you can hear a click at the very start of Part Two), various sections have been slightly re-touched. The most evident change from the "real" original 1974 mix is the snares after 4:12 in Part One, which are very clearly heard on the "real" mix - their volume level is much lower here. :)

Really? Strange, but could well be - it's ages since I've really listened to my old LP (I don't have a vinyl deck at the moment) so I haven't really made such a thorough comparison between the LP and disc 2; to me the Deluxe disc 2 version sounds "authentic". (The only thing I've been wondering is the part 1 fade-in - IIRC the "original" didn't have that?)

Well, well. I suppose it just goes to show that it's quite close to the "original" if what you say is true. The main thing is that it isn't the previous (Boxed?) mix of the previous cd incarnations of HR :cool:

Has there been any official info around about the 1974 mix master tapes - if it indeed is a vinyl rip, are the original tapes of that 1974 mix lost? Just out of interest.
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yanouch65 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 16 2011, 15:35

New item from Universal

http://shops.fr.ricardo.ch/categor....6522272

:cool:


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Ray said : "it is a shame you don't play"

manintherain said: "You´d better ask Mr. Y who was first"

yanouch65 says: "I am in love with Scotland"
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equinoxe Offline




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Posted: Oct. 17 2011, 10:22

I was hoping for a new Platinum Deluxe Edition!  :(
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manintherain Offline




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Posted: Oct. 17 2011, 16:13

Be patient!

;)
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stpaul Offline




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Posted: Aug. 07 2013, 23:41

That's missing in Hergest Ridge deluxe edition:

Orchestral Hergest Ridge live

Great film for a great composition !
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Airborne Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2013, 15:26

stpaul,

Absolutely superb. Not seen that since it was broadcast and it was the reason I bought Hergest Ridge before Tubular Bells. I did not realise there were so many beautiful shots of Hergest Ridge shown during the concert but it just reinforces the importance of the place as related to the music. Thank you for bringing this to my attention as I have not seen it for over 38 years.

This deserves a DVD release on its own.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2013, 16:40

I agree with Airborne, that's absolutely superb to see!

Tony Staveacre is of course the guy who directed the 2nd House Tubular Bells performance as well. Nice that he's kept a copy of the performance, it's not unlikely that nobody else has it any more...

I thought the sequences with the glider over the ridge were particularly beautiful. Again, I agree with Airborne about the relationship between the place and the music, there's a very special connection between the two...and in a way, perhaps Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn are the two albums most connected to Mike's surroundings, Hergest Ridge reflecting the place and Ommadawn reflecting the people.

I think it's rather a shame that Mike's somehow never come to see eye to eye with Hergest Ridge, and perhaps even more so with the orchestral version - I think it's better suited to an orchestral arrangement than Tubular Bells.

Great find there, stpaul!
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yanouch65 Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2013, 17:19

Does it exist the full concert?

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Ray said : "it is a shame you don't play"

manintherain said: "You´d better ask Mr. Y who was first"

yanouch65 says: "I am in love with Scotland"
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AUTOMATIC 18 Offline




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Posted: May 14 2015, 17:12

The 2010 remix is pretty bad, it highlights all the percussive elements of the mix making it irritating rather than relaxing. I always loved the way Hergest Ridge was subtle and sublime. The new mix is not for me, while the demos are great. The artwork is great too. I even bought the LP as well as the Deluxe edition and the 6 CD box set of all first 6 albums.
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