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Topic: Hergest Ridge 2010 Pt 2 Progressive Mix, The final full length version< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Milamber Offline




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Posted: Aug. 17 2010, 07:20

Thanks for the Advice Ugo :)
I have made those changes you mentioned.

I decided to attempt the entire Thunderstorm in one single take, Seven hours later I was partially happy with this last take and have decided to let it be.

And now its done can't say it all worked the way I wanted and I'm starting to wonder if Mike actually used a click track :laugh:
So here it is ,Co produced by Ugo and Syd B :D


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Aug. 18 2010, 16:17

BRAVO Milamber !!!!

Bloody fantastic - you're a marathon man.  :cool:

And all credit to your producers.

All set for the next stage - Crises 1. :)


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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Aug. 19 2010, 04:15

Thanks heaps glad you liked it Wiga :D
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2010, 11:10

It took me repeated listenings to make up my mind on this, but I'm finally able to comment. So what I note down here is what doesn't sound "right" to me, or however what could be improved. Everything else is perfect. :) I know it's not easy to keep up with Mike O.'s rhythms and beats, especially when Mike O's rhythms are very loose. Anyway, these are just suggestions of mine, it's up to you to implement them or not or do whatever you want to do with them - even throw them all in the garbage bin! [And I don't mean Windows' "recycle bin" - I do mean the trash bin!! :D]

7:25-7:26 - Too many bass drum hits.
8:29-8:31 - A bit too busy, maybe?
11:04-11:05 - Off-beat fill.
11:59-13:38 - You should do all of this section with the same beat. As the music never really changes here, it sounds useless to me to do first half-time and then double-time (it sounds very nice on most other sections of the Thunderstorm, but not really here). So you should do all of this section either in half-time or in double-time, but not both. Also, around 13:00 there are some slightly off-beat hits.
14:50 - Too busy. Also, listen to the rhythm guitar here: it goes one-TWO-three-FOUR. That's the beat you should do up to the end of the Thunderstorm.
15:05 - Off-beat.
15:09-15:10 - Too busy and off-beat.
15:12-15:24 - Try not to do the snare on all fours here. Just do two and four. And yes, you may do plenty of cymbal crashes. :)
16:22-16:40 - Way too busy, you should really not do anything here - maybe just some cymbals, up to the big fill at 16:40, which is off-beat here, and which leads to the big reprise of the "Borla, Dee-ena" theme.
16:42-17:15 - I'm very sorry to tell you this, but all of this section is terribly off-beat. It's the lowest point, qualitatively, of your whole performance. You catch up a bit in the other repetitions (e.g. when the big guitars come in after the singing, which is perfect), but most of it is still off-beat. As I said above, the main beat here is very loose, but there is a beat. To catch it correctly, here, you shouldn't listen to the acoustic guitar, which goes on its own. You should listen to the sung words and count 1-2-3-4 through them. This way you will realize that the beat is much slower than what you did in this performance of yours.

OK, this is all I can say about this right now. Hope it is useful to you. If it isn't, or if you disagree, feel free to insult me. :p

By the way, I don't think Mike used a click track anywhere on this, but it was obviously recorded in sections. I don't think the Thunderstorm is all one section - it may be 5 or 6 sections spliced up, or even more.


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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2010, 12:02

That's an electronic drum-kit isn't it?

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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2010, 12:34

@ Lars: before he answers, I do. :) Yes, it is.

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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2010, 16:36

Must be difficult to play along to HR. It's the ultimate drumless rock album. HR sounds like noone even thought of drums (or even pronunced the word "drums" aloud) while recording it. Just the continous organ drone, green hills and sheep...
The "thunderstorm" section is basically a heavy metal piece which doesn't sound like heavy metal because there are no drums.
If Mike had a band for there early albums I'm sure they woulnd't have sounded as unique and different. Recording technology and adolescent angst made Hergest Ridge what it is!

Back on topic:
The tempo is all over the place, isn't it? I suspect there are click tracks but many overdubs stray far from the beat in places. With the new mixes I also noticed that there are some delay FX that doesn't sync very well with the tempo of the music, which could be part of the problem too.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 04:59

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 27 2010, 11:10)
It took me repeated listenings to make up my mind on this, but I'm finally able to comment. So what I note down here is what doesn't sound "right" to me, or however what could be improved. Everything else is perfect. :) I know it's not easy to keep up with Mike O.'s rhythms and beats, especially when Mike O's rhythms are very loose. Anyway, these are just suggestions of mine, it's up to you to implement them or not or do whatever you want to do with them - even throw them all in the garbage bin! [And I don't mean Windows' "recycle bin" - I do mean the trash bin!! :D]

7:25-7:26 - Too many bass drum hits.
8:29-8:31 - A bit too busy, maybe?
11:04-11:05 - Off-beat fill.
11:59-13:38 - You should do all of this section with the same beat. As the music never really changes here, it sounds useless to me to do first half-time and then double-time (it sounds very nice on most other sections of the Thunderstorm, but not really here). So you should do all of this section either in half-time or in double-time, but not both. Also, around 13:00 there are some slightly off-beat hits.
14:50 - Too busy. Also, listen to the rhythm guitar here: it goes one-TWO-three-FOUR. That's the beat you should do up to the end of the Thunderstorm.
15:05 - Off-beat.
15:09-15:10 - Too busy and off-beat.
15:12-15:24 - Try not to do the snare on all fours here. Just do two and four. And yes, you may do plenty of cymbal crashes. :)
16:22-16:40 - Way too busy, you should really not do anything here - maybe just some cymbals, up to the big fill at 16:40, which is off-beat here, and which leads to the big reprise of the "Borla, Dee-ena" theme.
16:42-17:15 - I'm very sorry to tell you this, but all of this section is terribly off-beat. It's the lowest point, qualitatively, of your whole performance. You catch up a bit in the other repetitions (e.g. when the big guitars come in after the singing, which is perfect), but most of it is still off-beat. As I said above, the main beat here is very loose, but there is a beat. To catch it correctly, here, you shouldn't listen to the acoustic guitar, which goes on its own. You should listen to the sung words and count 1-2-3-4 through them. This way you will realize that the beat is much slower than what you did in this performance of yours.

OK, this is all I can say about this right now. Hope it is useful to you. If it isn't, or if you disagree, feel free to insult me. :p

By the way, I don't think Mike used a click track anywhere on this, but it was obviously recorded in sections. I don't think the Thunderstorm is all one section - it may be 5 or 6 sections spliced up, or even more.

Good Grief Ugo!!

You've got the pesky perfectionism of James Cameron - poor old Milamber's got his work cut out with this partnership.  :p


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 05:19

@ Wiga: Cameron (Milamber) explicitly asked me for that.

@ Lars: the fact that HR doesn't have drums, IMHO, doesn't necessarily mean than drums were never intended to be on it. Part 1 does have drums (there are snares and stuff), and maybe Mike O. had something in mind about someone drumming on Part 2 as well (especially on the Thunderstorm), before changing his mind. TB Part 1 also sounds "drumless", yet drums were added to it by Morris Pert during the Exposed shows, and they don't sound out of place at all - at least to me.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 05:39

Confusion with Camerons :/

Ugo; I was talking about James Cameron (the director) - your producing and directing style is not dissimilar. :D


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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 05:43

Thats OK Wiga ,Ugo is just doing the job I asked him to undertake at the start of this project.

Ugo have no fear of an insult.

I respect your opinion greatly and have been very great full for the help and advice from the beginning and really appreciate your honesty and obvious time you have put into your reviews and comments  :)
And honestly your comments were spot on (as always)

Due to time constraints and such I put out a sub par recording and that was a mistake on my part.
Also ( and I'm sure Ugo and Lars will understand ) you can easily loose objectivity working on your own without outside feedback.

So back to business, Ugo If you had a choice for the Thunderstorm would you prefer the half time beat or fast one?
Btw the half time beat was a homage to Taurus 1 Montreux .

Once again thanks for your help I'll scrap everything except the intro and percussion and start again.
Shame as I'm halfway through Cochise from the album Guitars (& Drums) :D
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 08:26

Quote (wiga @ Aug. 28 2010, 11:39)
Confusion with Camerons :/

Ugo; I was talking about James Cameron (the director) - your producing and directing style is not dissimilar. :D

@ wiga: I did understand about James Cameron, the fact that Cameron is also Milamber's real name did nothing but add to the confusion. :) However, I am not producing or directing anything - as Milamber so rightly said, I did what he asked me to do, i.e. to comment in an extremely honest way, and that's what I did.

@ Milamber: thanks a lot, I'm very happy you appreciated my effort. As for the half-time vs. double-time bit, it's your choice. If you like it as half-time, do it as half-time. The important thing, as I said, is not to change the beat during that particular section. Also, of course you don't have to rush anything. If you are in the middle of Cochise, do Cochise first (there already are some guitar-generated MIDI drums on it, arent't there?) and then you get back to HR.


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wiga Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 14:55

Quote (milamber @ Aug. 17 2010, 07:20)
So here it is ,Co produced by Ugo and Syd B :D


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Ugo - now you're saying you're not producing and directing anything  - I'm confused.  :zzz:

And where is Syd B ?


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2010, 17:59

@ Wiga: the "co-produced" thing was a joke. Ask Milamber. :D As for Syd B., maybe he's somewhere laughing in his madcap. :laugh:

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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Aug. 29 2010, 07:22

Yes Wiga it was a joke albeit a respectful one :)

And funnily enough James is my second name.

As for Syd B , I'm sure he wont mind me telling you guys this as everyone knows his dislike for his current lodgings and town .

Looks like he is getting out of there soon (and may have moved already) but the new place has no internet.

Hope very much he returns here soon .
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Aug. 29 2010, 08:37

Quote (milamber @ Aug. 29 2010, 07:22)
Yes Wiga it was a joke albeit a respectful one :)

Ahh ahh  ;)




Good news about Syd. :)


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 29 2010, 09:40

@ Milamber: I don't think you really need to scrap it all and re-start from scratch - if your recording software allows drop-ins or anything similar to that, you can correct only the bits I mentioned. Also, about doing the same beat all the way through a section, I was referring only to the section of the Thunderstorm beginning at 11:59 and ending at 13:38, not to the whole of the Thunderstorm. The transitions from half-time to double-time you did in the other bits were all excellent. :cool:

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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Aug. 29 2010, 09:54

Thats more or less what I thought you meant but the problem is (11:59/13:38) the slower beat allows much more expression but the faster one gives more of an impact back into the slower heavy part that comes next but you have to play the fast one as straight time with less fills what to do what to do?
I'll try both and see what works best .
Thanks again :)
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ex member 892 Offline




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Posted: Sep. 01 2010, 13:45

Downloading now, will leave comments when I've listened to it. And btw I'm back now, I've missed you guys :)
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ex member 892 Offline




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Posted: Sep. 01 2010, 13:46

Oh shit, no I'm not downloading. Says it's hit the limit. Anyway you can re-up, Milamber?
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