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Topic: Harp sound in Ommadawn, It was problematic once, but now...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 17 2003, 16:39

Back in 1975, Mike said that one of the reasons why he couldn't play Ommadawn live was that there was no way of getting a decent harp sound on stage... he would've spent hours miking and compressing it. If today Mike really wanted to perform Ommadawn live [but I don't think that he really wants to... :)], there wouldn't be any problems at all... all he'd have to do is getting a so-called 'electroacustic harp' like the one that Andreas Vollenweider currently plays.
What do you think about this?

P.S. [jokin']: I know that this place isn't exactly littered with Vollenweider fans, and I wouldn't be very surprised if there were just a few people knowing what I'm talking about. :D


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Satyagraha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 17 2003, 16:56

Quote
all he'd have to do is getting a so-called 'electroacustic harp' like the one that Andreas Vollenweider currently plays

I haven't seen Herr Vollenweiders harp, but I think there's no need for such instruments anymore. I have a purpose-built pick-up mounted onto the bridge of my double bass, and it sounds brilliant.  Dynamic, punchy and realistic, like good close-miking without all the trouble. I guess such devices could be used on a harp, too, with good result. By means of a preamp, one can apply EQ-ing, limiting, compressing and whatever one fancies to the output. Check out Swedish group Hedningarna, who uses all kind of real mediæval instruments at terrifying volume on rock stages. The sure got a great harp sound.


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Byrði betri berrat maðr brautu at en sé mannvit mikit
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Aug. 17 2003, 19:53

Mike's said that even recently, how it's impossible to get a good harp sound live (which is why he played the parts from a guitar instead, using a modelled harp setting in his Roland VG-8).

Well...it just shows you how much Mike knows...there are indeed some very good electroacoustic harps - I came across a company exhibiting some at the Welsh National Eisteddfod, I believe they had a pickup for each string. The sound seemed quite natural to me.

It is of course perfectly possible to amplify any acoustic instrument using stick-on piezo 'bugs' or contact microphones, with varying degrees of success. I think it's best, with an instrument like the harp, to have something which runs the full length of the soundboard to get a nice even balance between the strings (hence the individual pickups in the electroacoustic model I mentioned).

Bridge mounted systems can certainly work quite nicely for those instruments which have a bridge suited to fitting a pickup inside. Mounting a pickup there has the disadvantage of picking up less of the sound lent to the instrument by the resonances of its body (which is what leads some people to place pickups in several places on their instruments), but they can still sound quite reasonable, and that kind of mounting also has its advantages - the more of the vibrations from the body that are picked up, the more likely it is to feed back as the soundboard is excited by the sounds returning to it from the speakers. Blocking the soundholes helps a lot in those situations, though.

Placing pickups on an existing acoustic instrument to convert it into an electroacoustic can work well. Problems can arise from the body being a bit too resonant - the best instruments for really high stage volumes are those like the Gibson Chet Atkins guitars, which have extremely heavily dampeened bodies (it's a very thin-bodied acoustic guitar, and has had the chambers inside it filled with a lightweight wood like balsa).

The secret though, is not to have too high a volume on stage. Notching out offending frequencies from the monitors can also work wonders.

I really think that Mike is just making excuses. The truth is probably that he doesn't want to play the harp on stage (and in the case of 1975, he didn't want to play anything on stage...). Considering that Mike favours low on-stage volumes, and sometimes even uses in-ear monitoring, there's not necessarily any reason why he couldn't mic up a harp with a nice condenser microphone or two.
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SCprogfan
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Posted: Aug. 19 2003, 09:09

Jon Anderson (of Yes) gets a pretty good sound from his little hand-held harp in concert, so it must not be too difficult.
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