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Alan D Offline




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Posted: July 09 2008, 11:37

Quote (nightspore @ July 09 2008, 09:22)
He's taking the p*ss, Alan.

Ah.
Right.
Well then, now I'm trying to figure that out....

(Did I say something ridiculous, and not realise it?)
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: July 09 2008, 13:05

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ July 09 2008, 13:47)
Quote (Alan D @ July 08 2008, 17:02)
I can't help thinking that this may not be a musical issue at all, but more like a physiological or psychological one.

Perhaps it's both; because I'm quite sure I would be able to cope with that voice in a different, more appropriate context. The woman's pretty much trying as hard as she can to sound not simply inhuman, but anti-human in every aspect. That's not bad in itself, but the song's meant to be a serious, straightfaced, honest-to-goodness statement of salvation. If I weren't aware of the song's intentions, I would have taken it as a - perhaps quite tasteless - joke.

Hmm, it seems we have a slightly different interpretation. I hear the way she's saying it as forced - as though she's being forced to say it before she lands on America. It has that feeling to me. I can see what you mean about it sounding inhuman though... perhaps she's had her humanity driven out of her by the cruel oppressors?

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Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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Bassman Offline




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Posted: July 09 2008, 13:22

I agree with you, Arron.  That's sort of how I interpret the voice, too.  Like she's exhausted to the limit of human endurance, but still audibly muttering it almost under her breath (like the "mantra" mentioned earlier), but not too loudly lest the "massa" overhears.  That's why I feel the vocal delivery is entirely appropriate.

I don't recall reading anything containing MO's explanation of the song.  Does anything exist?


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: July 09 2008, 17:43

Quote (arron11196 @ July 09 2008, 13:05)
Hmm, it seems we have a slightly different interpretation. I hear the way she's saying it as forced - as though she's being forced to say it before she lands on America. It has that feeling to me. I can see what you mean about it sounding inhuman though... perhaps she's had her humanity driven out of her by the cruel oppressors?

But isn't Amazing Grace written from the point of view from the Oppressor, who has just been saved? It doesn't make sense that one is still feeling heavy and tired after being rescued by God. If the song was meant to be sung by the slaves, it's quite an inconsistency, isn't it?

And like I said, there's a difference between sounding "inhuman" - which is what Kraftwerk often sought to do - and saying "has saved a wretCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH like me".


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: July 10 2008, 00:09

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ July 09 2008, 17:43)
It doesn't make sense that one is still feeling heavy and tired after being rescued by God.

First off, I agree with arron's and Bassman's interpretation here. Don't forget, Sir M, that being "saved" doesn't give you carte blanche to be "laid back" about the whole thing: it's still God's show, and one slip means you're in the other place after all!
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SunkenForest Offline




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Posted: Jan. 20 2010, 15:32

Hello, Tubular.net.

A former lurker is jumping into the conversation here.  This is my first constructive post.

    At any rate, about the topic on hand -
I really like this album, even though (or maybe because) it sounds so thrown-together in terms of music style and lyrical content.

I'm listening to it now, in fact, as I've had Pacha Mama running through my head all day.  I really think there's plenty here to keep me coming back (it might be one of my most listened to MO albums in recent months) but at any rate, Lake Constance is worth the price of the disk several times over.
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Jan. 21 2010, 13:08

Quote (SunkenForest @ Jan. 20 2010, 15:32)
I've had Pacha Mama running through my head all day.

Hi SunkenForest.

You're very brave starting out on this thread - bit controversial!

I like The Millennium Bell, and particularly Pacha Mama, and I think it was the quirky lyrics as much as anything - "you are a sexy woman" - that first appealed to me. Then these kind of quirky lyrics appealed to me on the other albums, like TBII, - "where's your mummy, where's she gone" ....and Amarok, - "far so far" and "Happee-ha-a-a-a" etc etc.

Very unique to Mike Oldfield's sense of humour I think, and I haven't come across such original lyrics from any other artist that tickle my fancy quite as much :).


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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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SunkenForest Offline




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Posted: Jan. 21 2010, 13:49

I can see what you mean - I suppose I can see what you're saying about the quirky humor in some of the albums (the Maggie Thatcher impression on Amarok is my favorite), but I think MB is a pretty serious album.  Maybe it's just because of how I feel about Lake Constance.

Actually, for some time, the only MO music I owned was TSODE and three or four individual tracks that I had managed to steal off of a really old-school file sharing site with dialup internet.  If I recall correctly it was prolly Taurus 2, Mount Teidi, and Lake Constance.  This was before MP3 players were really a thing, but I had LC on a CD, and on a vacation to the mountains, I think it was the one of the only things I listened to all week, on repeat, while reading multiple books and while driving.

I of course ended up actually buying all of the albums I was missing in the discography (this was years ago), but MB is one of my more recent ones (I've only had it since May).  Because of the way I was introduced to the album, I look at it differently than most fans might.  This may not be a commonly-held view, but for me, it feels like the whole album is a framework for that centerpiece track - the rest of the songs feel a lot more energetic and upbeat, and it feels oddly out of place in the context of the whole.

He does, however, return to the theme (in a memorable and awesome, if slightly cheesy way) on the last track, with Sunlight Shining right on top of it, just before the conclusion.  It takes me right back to the mountains.

I feel like there must be some sort of thematic statement here.  Any thoughts?
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Jan. 21 2010, 16:34

Quote (SunkenForest @ Jan. 21 2010, 13:49)
I think MB is a pretty serious album.  Maybe it's just because of how I feel about Lake Constance.

It's refreshing to hear your views because I haven't heard anyone on the forum view TMB so positively, (except perhaps from nightspore and trcanberra). I agree that it's a serious album and I enjoy the whole process in it's entirety. I don't view Lake Constance as it's centrepiece though, but it's a very nice track.

You get mountains do you - I get men on horses, and wide open spaces.


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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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SunkenForest Offline




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Posted: Jan. 23 2010, 13:02

Yeah, I would say I do view TMB pretty positively.  Is that unusual?  

The funny thing is, though, I can't say yet if it's one of my favorites or not (I'm really not sure if it would even make top five, but it's possible).  While I now own the discography, I haven't really spent the time with most of these albums that I would guess most of you have.  For me, I would say 75-80% of MO's music is still very fresh to me, and I am still forming opinions.

That being said, I do consider this album a solid one, and I do like it.  What would you consider the centerpiece to be (if there is one?)
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Jan. 23 2010, 17:26

I was saying on another thread that TMB is like an action/adventure novel, and putting aside what might be good/bad right/wrong about TMB, for me it's an album that tells a story. From start to finish it's an epic journey through time - and it just seems to capture my imagination and tell an adventurous and moving life-story. Each track is a theme and there isn't necesarily a centrepiece, although Broad Sunlit Uplands seems to be a significant turning point of events - and maybe Lake Constance too.

My interpretation goes something like this: - briefly,

It begins with a panoramic view (Peace on Earth), and zooms in and then out of what seems like a happy childhood. The hero of the story comes of age (Pacha Mama) and sows his wild oats, but then comes the loss of his mother (Santa Maria), and he has to grow up quickly (Sunlight Shining Through the Cloud), and stand on his own two feet. He gets on his horse and goes off to war (D's Palace). He sees life and also falls in love (Lake Constance), but career comes first and he's away again - promoted up the ranks (Mastermind). There he sees the full horror of war (Broad Sunlit Uplands) and becomes a man. The war is won (Liberation), there is celebration (Amber Light), and the birth of his child. Then back on his horse he returns to his family (Millennium Bell) - a long journey back and some demons on the way...

The End.


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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: April 26 2010, 08:26

Ok stop the press!I gave this a listen for the first time in years last night and i actually enjoyed parts of it.Some bits i still don't like (Mastermind still sucks IMHO as does the title track)but the rest is actually pretty good.Am i mellowing with age?Maybe. ;)

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nightspore Offline




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Posted: April 26 2010, 08:50

Quote (The Caveman @ April 26 2010, 08:26)
Ok stop the press!I gave this a listen for the first time in years last night and i actually enjoyed parts of it.Some bits i still don't like (Mastermind still sucks IMHO as does the title track)but the rest is actually pretty good.Am i mellowing with age?Maybe. ;)

Eek -  maybe I'll start liking Incantations next! Or maybe there'll be other music you'll start liking as well, Cave!  :D

Seriously, I've liked most of TMB right from the start, although like you I'm not keen on "Mastermind". But then Mr O's music has a habit of creeping up on you, doesn't it?
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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: April 26 2010, 09:17

Steady on there!You/Incantations?I doubt that!

I've tried for 10 years to get into this album and i've been into MO since i was in the womb and i have never had one of his records take this long to get into.It's never going to be a favourite but i will be giving ot more listens from now on.


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THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 26 2010, 15:49

Sorry to ressurrect this, but:

Quote (wiga @ Jan. 21 2010, 13:08)
I like The Millennium Bell, and particularly Pacha Mama, and I think it was the quirky lyrics as much as anything - "you are a sexy woman" - that first appealed to me.


HUACA SAQSAYWAMAN! It's HUACA SAQSAYWAMAN they're singing! Those are NOT English lyrics!

(ok, so I didn't bother to check out if I typed those words right. Reading lyrics from The Millennium Bell isn't exactly high in my priority list at the moment -- that would be more embarrassing than getting lyrics wrong, and I have a dignity to keep).

Quote
I've tried for 10 years to get into this album and i've been into MO since i was in the womb and i have never had one of his records take this long to get into.


One thing that gets me wondering is -- is it really necessary to keep trying that hard to "get into" a record? There must be a certain point along the journey when it ceases being a challenge and becomes pretty much a struggle. I think one has to know when it's time to stop.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: April 26 2010, 20:21

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 26 2010, 15:49)
(ok, so I didn't bother to check out if I typed those words right. Reading lyrics from The Millennium Bell isn't exactly high in my priority list at the moment -- that would be more embarrassing than getting lyrics wrong, and I have a dignity to keep).

Quote
I've tried for 10 years to get into this album and i've been into MO since i was in the womb and i have never had one of his records take this long to get into.


One thing that gets me wondering is -- is it really necessary to keep trying that hard to "get into" a record? There must be a certain point along the journey when it ceases being a challenge and becomes pretty much a struggle. I think one has to know when it's time to stop.

Ha ha, dignity in whose eyes? From the point of view of serious music, if you like anything in the pop field, you ain't got no dignity, bro!  :D  You might just as well throw dignity to the Four Winds, and pretend to like The W____s!

I agree with you in one respect, though: I never try to make myself like anything. "Santa Maria" and "Amber Light" had immediate appeal for me, and still do; they're among my top 10 MO pieces!
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 26 2010, 21:44

Quote (nightspore @ April 26 2010, 20:21)
Ha ha, dignity in whose eyes? From the point of view of serious music, if you like anything in the pop field, you ain't got no dignity, bro!  :D  You might just as well throw dignity to the Four Winds, and pretend to like The W____s!

I agree with you in one respect, though: I never try to make myself like anything. "Santa Maria" and "Amber Light" had immediate appeal for me, and still do; they're among my top 10 MO pieces!

Oh, I only bother about dignity in my own eyes. I have my own, arbitrarily set of standards and I damn arbitrarily follow them! I reject the right not to follow my standards! Or, better yet, I reject the right not to have the right to follow my standards!

Urgh. I'm talking like the two philosophers from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, now. :laugh:

Amber Light is actually one of the tracks from that album that I have no problem with. Santa Maria, though, annoys me -- it sorts of wanders around in circles, but very loudly and very pompously. Yeah, I know that Santa Maria, Santa Maria and Santa Maria Santa Maria, and Santa Maria, Santa Maria and Santa Maria. I get the message. I guess.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: April 27 2010, 02:57

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 26 2010, 21:44)
Urgh. I'm talking like the two philosophers from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, now. :laugh:

We want that machine off and we want it off now!Lol.

Dunno why i decided to listen to it again.Just wanted something nice on while i was reading (on a self imposed TV ban-sick of veg-ing on front of the telly and not doing any reading!;).I've always liked bits of it.Amber Light for example and the track with the blatant self-sampled drum track (Amarok) with the Anne Frank diary extract read by his daughter but on the whole it left me cold.But i just thought "actually i'm really enjoying this!" much to my own surprise!


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: April 27 2010, 04:27

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 26 2010, 21:44)
Oh, I only bother about dignity in my own eyes. I have my own, arbitrarily set of standards and I damn arbitrarily follow them! I reject the right not to follow my standards! Or, better yet, I reject the right not to have the right to follow my standards!

Urgh. I'm talking like the two philosophers from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, now. :laugh:

Amber Light is actually one of the tracks from that album that I have no problem with. Santa Maria, though, annoys me -- it sorts of wanders around in circles, but very loudly and very pompously. Yeah, I know that Santa Maria, Santa Maria and Santa Maria Santa Maria, and Santa Maria, Santa Maria and Santa Maria. I get the message. I guess.

Well said, Sir M - I really only care about dignity according to my own standards as well (although a nitpicker could object that if standards are truly personal it's illogical even to mention them in a public forum).

I can see why one might object to "Santa Maria" if seen your way (although wandering around in circles being loud and pompous actually sounds rather fun) - but to me the repetition connotes instead the repetitious motion of the sea.
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