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SyncEmotions Offline




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Posted: Sep. 27 2012, 14:54

Quote (Ugo @ June 11 2011, 17:51)
@ nightspore and Simon M.: I guess that Mike is commonly perceived as an underrated guitarist not only because he's a multi-instrumentalist (as someone in this thread already said), but because he isn't flashy - not even live.

Its becouse he is concentrated about playing and not posing!

But did you knew that on old time the concert was more about music and less about happening on the stage and effects.
Today the concerts (Britney for example) are more effects, more  lightshow, more about acts and more dick-factor and less about music, less about singing, more playback... and the most important is that it sells, how they sing is not important. What fans about her: "what You like about her?" --  "I like how she dances", "I like how she looks", ... etc. everything but not music!

Take even Youtube channel -- when publishing music there, it counts what the listener will see, not what they hear.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Sep. 27 2012, 15:24

Quote (SyncEmotions @ Sep. 27 2012, 14:54)
Today the concerts (Britney for example) are more effects, more  lightshow, more about acts and more dick-factor and less about music, less about singing, more playback... and the most important is that it sells, how they sing is not important. What fans  about her: "what You like about her?" --  "I like how she dances", "I like how she looks", ... etc. everything but not music!

Well, yes, because those concerts are not only about music. There is lightshow, there is dancing, there are especial effects, because that's what the show IS. It's unfair to expect acts like Britney to be "about the music". That's like going to watch a play expecting only the text, and complaining about the costumes, the make up and the acting!

Besides, concerts have been like that at least since Beatlemania. And nobody said that music concerts cannot combine good music with excellent stage effects (see Pink Floyd). Heck, even classical music has a lot of showmanship and appearance involved. It's not only about the music. A concert has many elements. If you want only music, listen to the album.

Music is a bodily experience too, and I see no fault with artists exploring that fact. It's a form of expression, as valid as any other.


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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SyncEmotions Offline




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Posted: Sep. 27 2012, 17:16

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Sep. 27 2012, 15:24)

"not only about music" ehh?! The music is lost in the overwhelming "other details" on stage.

I should have said with bold text and colored red "but NOT about music", becouse my point was totally missed. :D :D :D

becouse "and about music" goes home to musicians only.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Sep. 28 2012, 10:52

I don't really know what you mean. If a show is not about music, then, well, it is simply a show that's not about music. What's the problem with that? Fashion shows are not about music, and there's nothing wrong with that (personally I despise them, but that's beside the point).

What you're saying, I think, is that there are certain musicians today that are not concerned about music, and only want to show off other elements on stage. That's a very shallow view of things. Say, I don't like Britney Spears the least, but I wouldn't be crazy to affirm that she doesn't care about the music. If you take away the music, there's no concert, plain and simple. A crowd of thousands wouldn't pay to see her standing still, or speaking. What happens is that people don't go there only to listen to the music: people want to watch her dance and entertain the audience; they want to see the lights, the back-up dancers, the stage decoration, and everything else. It's a spectacle. You don't have to like it, but don't be so eager to dismiss an entire art form simply because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived definitions of what art is and what it's not; don't forget that almost everyone who did that ended up faded and forgotten, erased from history.


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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SyncEmotions Offline




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Posted: Sep. 29 2012, 06:25

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Sep. 28 2012, 10:52)
A crowd of thousands wouldn't pay to see her standing still, or speaking. What happens is that people don't go there only to listen to the music: people want to watch her dance and entertain the audience; they want to see the lights, the back-up dancers, the stage decoration, and everything else. It's a spectacle. You don't have to like it, but don't be so eager to dismiss an entire art form simply because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived
/-/-/

BUt thats just the point -- they  really are like they DO pay to see effects and dancing-standing her even if music would be much more crappy. The fans comment just these overwhelming details, thats their main focus! I would not give even a second thought about the next thing -- if we take away backdancers, lightshow and other overwhelming distractions then Britney and hers music still is there, BUT the teenagers wont go and pay the ticket or it must be very cheap in this case, though its a concert. Why, the other details just were supporting with their distractive way.

Actually, look those who go to hers concert. . .

Was all this adressed to half-deaf in this case?

Quote

don't forget that almost everyone who did that ended up faded and forgotten, erased from history.


Nope, its worse than this!!

The people also burned in history those who knew little better nature or executed Jan Hus  who said that Earth is going round the Sun and not opposite.
Its becouse stupidity. Most popular and dominant thing on Earth and ruling this world.
-- its popular to be dumb, majority of population is still underdeveloped  as we know.  And it has nothing with education.


But what bothers me that even those concerts which are less about effects and music is the major element, still these concerts are with huge volume level which remains as brightest memory.

Me and earplugs...

Well, I was on Jarre concert at 2009. I did not went there to see lightshow but to listen music. Thanks that I had earplugs with me. Inserted and checked while it was still quiet and only people were talking around in the hall. Quiet, So, it works. But when concert began I felt like cheated, becouse even with earplugs I had 90-100dB level in my ears!  -- Were the earplugs not functioning? Oh yes, 40dB attenuation. But the sound was there 126..136dB.
Well, I had exercised several weeks putting in ear earplugs and got the skill, due to arrogant and noisy neighbours from a warm-warm-country who always talked with loud voice which can come through the wall.
Only one thing -- that concertplace in Stockholm was a hockeyhall so there was no difference if you were on the last line or just on the floor closest to Jarre.
Thanks for reading. :)
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 01 2012, 09:44

You know why I never complain about stupidity in the world? Because I'll never be sure that I'm not in the "stupid" crowd. There are many scholars, scientists with doctorates and masters degrees, that walk around with a pointed finger ready to judge me without even knowing me. There are many arrogant artists, frustrated teachers, greasy businessmen and others who promptly put people like you and me in the "stupid" group, merely because we don't think like them. That that is stupid. So why should I do that?

Quote
I would not give even a second thought about the next thing -- if we take away backdancers, lightshow and other overwhelming distractions then Britney and hers music still is there, BUT the teenagers wont go and pay the ticket or it must be very cheap in this case, though its a concert.


Probably because the style of music is not very adequate for a person standing still, singing on an empty stage. Yes, there are artists and singers that can entertain a crowd of people for over an hour without special effects, but that's because the style of music allows it. Now, one thing that would be stupid would be to add exquisite light shows and dancers to classical music! ... oh, wait, they already did that. It's called ballet. Pfah, "ballet", just an euphemism for "stupid". You know that movie, Black Swan? That should be called Black Stupid. But that would be racist, so it should be called White Stupid.

Serious now. The truth is, there's nothing wrong if a person watches and enjoys a symphony by Mahler, and on the following day join a crowd of hundreds to sing and dance along to Gangnam Style. Those are different kinds of enjoyment, but are both equally valid. All it takes is an open mind. Now, if there are many people who think there is nothing fun or enjoyable about a Mahler symphony, that is another problem entirely, and yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with education.


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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SyncEmotions Offline




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Posted: Oct. 01 2012, 10:59

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Oct. 01 2012, 09:44)
You know why I never complain about stupidity in the world? Because I'll never be sure that I'm not in the stupid group.

one smart man said -- no brain, no pain. :) (thats modified of course).

Quote

Probably because the style of music is not very adequate for a person standing still, singing on an empty stage. Yes, there are artists and singers that can entertain a crowd of people for over an hour without special effects, but that's because the style of music allows it.

What I meant with my previous reply about it was -- You still can enjoy the music fully when just being at home and just listening and no need to dance or flash something since its totally different category. Not at all mandatory or complementing.

Actually it means that Britney is not making a concert actually, its more a neo-ballet in this case...

Quote

Pfah, "ballet", just an euphemism for "stupid". You know that movie, Black Swan? That should be called Black Stupid. But that would be racist, so it should be called White Stupid.

Thats really something which is pseudoproblem. Yes, there are others  who find it racistic. I have heard other people whining and complaining about niggers and blacks, they have their reasons and experiences with them, but I just leave it there and dont comment their talk and all were relaxed.  So, I was not in their club.
Well, I used very occassionally "racistic words"   actually while others were racists and so on, but... on one day certain people got very sensitive and started whining or making remarks about it that I used word "nigger" in my talk. It was not even meant as an insult. Very innocent way saying. But they were irritated. So, now I troll and poke them all the time becouse they get irritated. I really wonder, does every old movie will be censured where actor says "it works fine, but nigger cant shot" if the certain people go wild... and Ford must not paint cars black anymore.

All have equal rights, and they have these rights until they dont come to invade my privacy with noises and start to make fun of me. Then I make fun of them too and irritate them.


Quote

Serious now. The truth is, there's nothing wrong if a person watches and enjoys a symphony by Mahler, and on the following day join a crowd of hundreds to sing and dance along to Gangnam Style. ..../-/-/
....
there are many people who think there is nothing fun or enjoyable about a Mahler symphony, that is another problem entirely, and yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with education.


Agreed with that last one but I would still say it has nothing to do with education, its more about curiosity and will do understand and open mind for others what is needed vs. ignorance. And what it makes to think its nothing to do with education is becouse even highly educated  are ignorant and point fingers without will to understand different thinkers.

It-- to understand the differences-- really makes me think its something to do with values which cant be learned in our traditional education system. Just like You can't teach moral, as You can only be a example only and others will follow if You are solid with Your views and strong original.

What I have understood is that our education system gives only skills and teaches You to lie, be effective and those who cheated in high school continue sharpening their skills in cheating in a college too. It would be much better that students would regularly have goal to give themself a thought "what am I doing?!". After the school they continue the same way, who is bohem or cheater, does not matter, all continue same way. Its becouse its almost not at all so flexible as required and You dont get points becouse of being _honest_, _caring_. Nope.
And those other parameters which are required to enhance Your character dont fit in the terms of being more succesful in a school. Especially about giving others a helping hand.

well, I am a nerd, and proud about it.
From a bachelor years I got some skills, but _nothing_ which would enhance my character. I would have thought in my own tempo the same way these skills, but have missed all the pain which comes when having collision with cheaters and who wanted to copy my works.

JUst like this:
Quote

There are many scholars, scientists with doctorates and masters degrees, that walk around with a pointed finger ready to judge me without even knowing me. There are many arrogant artists, frustrated teachers, greasy businessmen and others who promptly put people like you and me in the "stupid" group, merely because we don't think like them. That that is stupid.



Quote

You know why I never complain about stupidity in the world? Because I'll never be sure that I'm not in the stupid group.


...or worse -- surrounded by them.


What a discussion. All started for me about seeing comment "Mike is not flashy" while I thought "why need, its about music, and not about flashyness". So it leads back to the beginning "now the music is more than just sound on concerts". Still, it is pressed by some certain people who try to form the audience, seeking formula for selling and make anything to make money and so it leads to changing artists too "You have to be flashy, it sells". WHile one group of listeners understands what is going on, second group follows the critics by media AND copys these beliefs, but forgetting -- the journalist is writes words he is paid to write by some more powerful and it can be also label owner. Dead loop.  So, thats why we can sometimes notice "latest trends" which is code "new things to follow". Also ,thats why all other brainwashing elements (commercials) work becouse he lets himself to be leaded  and he trusts those, but it would be much better to know what he _really_ wants. IF all would think to develop their own sense of what they _themself_ want and need and think, then it would be kind of different world and no need for artists to be shiny and the commercials have no effect since people have already made up their mind.

P.S.: Sorry for some typographical errors and other common grammatic mistakes. Tired just now. Thank you for reading.
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