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Question: Favourite Discovery Track :: Total Votes:87
Poll choices Votes Statistics
To France 13  [14.94%]
Poison Arrows 11  [12.64%]
Crystal Gazing 2  [2.30%]
Saved by a bell 7  [8.05%]
Talk about your life 6  [6.90%]
The Lake 33  [37.93%]
Discovery 6  [6.90%]
Tricks of the light 9  [10.34%]
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Topic: Favourite Discovery Track, Choose< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 07 2005, 12:33

Hergest Ridge side 1? Hey, that's quite vast, pastoral, even majestic and lush. It's a very refined and even bold piece of music, it's just more subtle and romantic. The Lake seems to rely on the "Awwww" factor, ya know? The cuddly "rippling" QE2-inspired synth at the very beginning, the chuga-chuga fun guitar rhythm, even the "doo-doo doo-doo dee-dee doo-doo" samples in the fast part... You know, I actually like the track, I just can't enjoy it as much as, say, Taurus 1, because it's a bit too sugary. But it's an alright track.

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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: April 07 2005, 13:12

"Wind Chimes" is the one I now think of as too sugary, and lately like it less the more I hear it.

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Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: April 08 2005, 07:19

The ending of The Lake is one of the greatest musical moments for me that I have ever heard, full of wonderful emotion. Certainly no "awww factor" when I listen to it. If I had to name a track of Mike's that I could describe as 'sugary', it would probably be Innocent, as much for the lyrics as anything else.

Also Sir M, you didn't quite answer my question. If you say that being "afraid of frightening the listeners" is a flaw of the piece, I'd like to know why Hergest Ridge part 1 doesn't have that flaw.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 08 2005, 12:28

Quote (raven4x4x @ April 08 2005, 07:19)
Also Sir M, you didn't quite answer my question. If you say that being "afraid of frightening the listeners" is a flaw of the piece, I'd like to know why Hergest Ridge part 1 doesn't have that flaw.

Ah, I didn't mean that necessarily as a flaw - just as a characteristic of the piece that, to me, makes a lot of difference. And about Hergest Ridge side 1, well, the endless repetition of the three-note riff at the beginning, the dangerous transition to the swingy bass rhythm, the grandiose choirs at the end... That's doesn't really sound all too listener-friendly to me, like The Lake does.

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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: April 09 2005, 10:52

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 06 2005, 16:28)
I figured out what is my problem with "The Lake": the piece is too goddamn cutesy! It's sweety sugary syrupy all the way through! It's the Care Bears to Tubular Bells' Woody Woodpecker.

Exactly! I think Wind Chimes suffers from the save problem. There's some of the "cutesiness" about Amarok too, but Amarok compensates with a general weirdness, and therefore it works.

Lars T


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siul Offline




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Posted: April 11 2005, 10:03

My favourite track in Discovery WOULD HAVE BEEN "In the Pool".

My virtual (not possible) vote for "IN THE POOL"

WHY WHY WHY it was left out of the final release?
Oh, ......., great mistake.
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maria Offline




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Posted: April 11 2005, 19:03

yes, i do like 'in the pool' too. i used to think it's a shame it was left out, but i've got a problem when i try to place it in the actual album's content.
'discovery' is an album i like very much also because despite it's formed by songs and a medium length piece, it's got a coherence all along that makes me feel it like a long single work somehow. something similar (being concious of the different styles) happens to me with alan parsons project 'tales of mystery and imagination'.

when it comes to give 'in the pool' a place among the other tracks i can't quite find a good one for it... nowhere in the a side i think.. and on the b side maybe after 'saved by a bell' or maybe between 'talk about your life' and 'saved by a bell'? not sure either..

so i think now i like it the way it is, the album still being coherent so long later and 'in the pool' as a leftover which is good to have.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 12 2005, 07:58

Perhaps it could work as the Side B opener. I've never been 100% comfortable with 'Talk About Your Life' opening the side... but there are the running time problems, too.

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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: April 12 2005, 08:33

In The Pool is one of my favourite of his shorter instrumental pieces, and I too would have liked it to have been in the album. If I had been in charge of the album I would have put it in place of Crystal Gazing myself, I've never really liked that song. Many of the shorter instrumentals I've heard, such as In The Pool, Afghan, Song of the Boatmen etc, I really wonder why they weren't on albums.

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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: April 12 2005, 09:56

An interesting thing about the transition between Poison Arrows and Crystal Gazing is that the latter starts on the same chord that the former ends with. I think it's a very well judged transition, as Crystal Gazing feels almost like a continuation of Poison Arrows.

More interesting maybe is that In The Pool is based around the first three chords of that closing sequence of Poison Arrows (which is the same sequence as in the chorus).

However, putting In The Pool after Poison Arrows just doesn't give as tight a transition, I feel. That's partly because of the way Crystal Gazing starts with that snare hit, giving a very hard beginning (it also comes in exactly on the beat continued from Poison Arrows, and the two songs are at the same speed - In The Pool is quite a bit faster), but also because of the sound of the tracks. Poison Arrows and Crystal Gazing, in the transition period, have a very similar tonal balance, being quite open and airy, while In The Pool seems darker and more constricted (this could partly be down to the mastering on the different CDs I'm listening to, but I think some of it lies more at the mix level, and in the choice of instrumentation).

I'd not open the B Side with it either - it's in a totally different mood to both Talk About Your Life (so I'd not put it before that) and Saved By A Bell (so I'd not replace Talk About Your Life with it). The sound thing still applies too, it's not as open sounding as either of those two tracks.
I think Talk About Your Life is actually a very clever choice to open the B Side, as it quotes To France which opened the A Side. I personally think that Discovery is Mike's best integrated album of songs - we have the To France/Poison Arrows/Crystal Gazing trio, then Tricks Of The Light and Discovery integrate very tightly too (the transition into that pairing is also well worked out, again with Crystal Gazing ending on the chord which Tricks Of The Light starts with), and the Talk About Your Life/To France connection.

I'd personally agree with Maria, and with Mike, and leave In The Pool off. I feel there's more to putting together a good album than just throwing in whatever tracks you like - it's a case of putting in tracks because they belong there. I feel it's essential to the creative process in general to always be asking "Does this need to be there? I might like it, but what's it adding?", and I think Mike did that very well when putting Discovery together.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 12 2005, 11:12

What would have been fun is putting 'In The Pool' right after 'Crystal Gazing': we'd have THREE B minor songs in a row! Also, maybe 'Tricks Of The Light' could pick up right from the noises at the end of 'In The Pool'... again with the same chord! I dunno, could work, but maybe the B minor could get a bit too tiresome?

Truthfully, I couldn't care less about the 'To France' quotation in 'Talk About Your Life'. Sounds forced, like Mike was trying to turn into Pete Townshend.


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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: April 12 2005, 11:17

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 12 2005, 11:12)
Truthfully, I couldn't care less about the 'To France' quotation in 'Talk About Your Life'. Sounds forced, like Mike was trying to turn into Pete Townshend.

Does the quotation sound like Townshend, or are you referring to the idea of part of one song appearing in the other?

If you mean the latter, this is "true Oldfield": TB1 quoted in Five Miles Out song, Conflict quoted in Orabidoo., etc. Chris Kimber, I believe, made a long list of songs that quoted other songs.


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"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: April 12 2005, 15:11

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 12 2005, 16:12)
Truthfully, I couldn't care less about the 'To France' quotation in 'Talk About Your Life'. Sounds forced, like Mike was trying to turn into Pete Townshend.

Not as forced as comments like that sound.

I don't pick up anything remotely Pete Townshend from it, besides the thing of pulling a theme from one track into the other, and I agree with Hiawatha on that one - that's a staple of Mike's work, and also a staple of Discovery.

If Mike was trying to turn into Pete Townshend, he would have smashed his Telecaster and started recording intricate strummed acoustic guitar parts on a Gibson J-200. All he's doing on Discovery is treating his songs like he would his instrumental pieces.
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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 06:49

Quote (Korgscrew @ April 13 2005, 04:11)
All he's doing on Discovery is treating his songs like he would his instrumental pieces.


I can't believe that I've never thought of that myself. It seems so obvious now. I think the To France theme works quite well in Talk About your Life, I feel it's a fair bit more agressive than in the original song. Perhaps that was the source of the Pete Tounshend thing?

As for the flow of the album, if I like a piece as much as I do In the Pool, I don't really mind if it doesn't seem to fit as much as it could. Of course, it would be preferable if it fitted into the rest of the album, but liking the song in the first place is more important to me.


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siul Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 07:55

Hi.

I am not sure if "In The Pool" fits ok with the rest of the album. But, i am absolutely sure "In The Pool" deserves better luck and to pay attention on it. It's such a wonderful song.

I would like the "Discovery" record much more with "In The Pool" included. Maybe, just after "The Lake" or inside "The Lake", which it's a bit short for my taste.

Regards.
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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 09:17

Quote (Korgscrew @ April 12 2005, 15:11)
If Mike was trying to turn into Pete Townshend, he would have smashed his Telecaster .....

Come to think of it, there is a little similarity in one thing. Both have been obssessed with one single work since the early 1970s.

Mike has released not only TB1 and its renovation as TB2003, he has also done a couple of sequels/variations. Compare this to how Pete Townshend just can't let go of the "Lifehouse" project, which was first presented in abbreviated form as "Who's Next". Since then, we've had Scoop, and some actual recent Lifehouse releases.

As for Mike smashing guitars, this probably would have fit into "Amarok" quite nicely. Maybe right after the whale-song in "Africa I".


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"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 09:29

Quote (hiawatha @ April 13 2005, 09:17)
Compare this to how Pete Townshend just can't let go of the "Lifehouse" project, which was first presented in abbreviated form as "Who's Next". Since then, we've had Scoop, and some actual recent Lifehouse releases.

Regarding Lifehouse, we've had:-

1) The aborted film
2) The Who's Next album
3) Pete's Psychoderelict solo project which used many Lifehouse ideas
4) A radio documentary
5) A radio play
6) A 5 CD box set including demos, the play etc...
7) Live solo shows

It still bugs him that he never got to do it right first time.  I kind of agree with him.  Who's Next is in my top 5 all-time records.  Lifehouse would probably have taken the number 1 slot.  I love those songs!

Jules


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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 09:48

Between 6 and 7, add "Lifehouse Elements", which is a single CD. It is related to #6. I'm looking at this CD right now. I haven't felt it necessary to shell out for the big box of CD's yet: it was rather expensive last time I looked.

Sorry we are going off topic with this!


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"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 10:11

Quote (hiawatha @ April 13 2005, 09:48)
Between 6 and 7, add "Lifehouse Elements", which is a single CD. It is related to #6. I'm looking at this CD right now. I haven't felt it necessary to shell out for the big box of CD's yet: it was rather expensive last time I looked.

Sorry we are going off topic with this!

Damn, yes, you're right!  I forgot about Lifehouse Elements!

I have the boxed set.  Discs 1 and 2 are excellent and I play them often, though I do sometimes wish I was hearing the Who and not solo Pete.  The other discs are pretty much a waste of time.  The play is so-so and the other music discs seem to be thrown together and unnecessary.

(And you're right about us going off topic too.  Will we have to forfeit something?)

;)

Jules


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: April 13 2005, 12:13

Quote (Korgscrew @ April 12 2005, 15:11)
All he's doing on Discovery is treating his songs like he would his instrumental pieces.

Yeah, because Discovery definitely isn't a pop album with pop songs released to try and please the record label a little bit. Not at all. Of course, Discovery is far from pop. It's an instrumental album with a little bit of vocals, and that's why "The Lake" is put right in the end with a big, huge "(instrumental)" label next to it. Hmm...

No, Mike! Doesn't sound right to me. I understand trying to make a set of pop songs a little "more" than that, but he didn't need to be so damn obvious about it. The chord sequence was already similar enough, to begin with, but the melody appears from nowhere and goes nowhere. Why bother, then?

Also, the Townshend comparison was just because he was already linking songs repeatedly on Tommy and Quadrophenia (and even Who's Next: 'The Song Is Over' directly quotes 'Pure And Easy' ), but it could have been any other band that had been doing concept albums in the 70's. Discovery isn't even a concept album! Geez.

And now that you mentioned it, I think Townshend's paranoia is far more justified than Mike's. Come on, Tubular Bells was released, sold a gajillion copies and still sells, and made Mike what he is now. "Lifehouse", though, is an unfinished project that gave true results - kind of like Pete's own "Smile". But even "Smile" is finished already, and Brian Wilson is a far less stable person than Pete Townshend! That mush really... suck.


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