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Topic: Excalibur, a little observation< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
BOOsTER Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2003, 05:33

I think i finally got why Mike did not include it on the album there are propably 2 possible reasons.
1) it doesn't really fit with the rest of the album...I could imagine Excalibur quite good on Voyager like a finale...
2) did you see the similarity between Broad Sunlit Uplands and Excalibur? just try if you can't recognize it just sing the lyrics of excalibur to the piano in BSU and you'll see. so maybe mike shamed a bit about it... two almost same tracks on one album???

well now tell me your opinions on it :)


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theweightless Offline




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Posted: Oct. 13 2003, 07:33

that's true, there's some similarity between those two tracks, i think excalibur could have suited better in TMB than BSU

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BOOsTER Offline




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Posted: Oct. 14 2003, 14:37

I think that excalibur has kinda more hmmmmm celtical feeling...
not like BSU which is poor "classic"
so as Mike said once he considered TMB more a progressively classical album so that's why I think BSU is better choice for album

though Excalibur is gazillion times better track...


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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Oct. 14 2003, 19:00

Excalibur is pure Voyager to my humble ears, revisiting old ground. Although that has been Mike's favourite recently. So..best left of, although it is great to discover these.

The game programmer for tr3s Luna mentioned in an interview that "Mike would change the music almost daily" Any one heard any stuff that never made it apart from the small official midi files on the official site? (daliphant etc)


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BOOsTER Offline




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Posted: Oct. 15 2003, 09:12

I have a mp3 of daliphant...and also some rarities but dunno about bootlegs...don't have too many I think :)

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Spinne Offline




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Posted: April 10 2004, 09:40

Quote
did you see the similarity between Broad Sunlit Uplands and Excalibur? just try if you can't recognize it just sing the lyrics of excalibur to the piano in BSU and you'll see. so maybe mike shamed a bit about it... two almost same tracks on one album???

Well, Excalibur and BSU have the same tune played with different instruments and different arrengements, but... if this is why he didn't include Excalibur he must be very ashamed of most of his previous works. Secrets and The Source Of Secrets are nearly the same song with slightly variatios (TSOS could have been a remix of Secrets for a 12" release). Taurus II starts and ends with the Five Miles Out tune, the start tune of Ommadawn is repeated everywhen at the first side of the album, the same for some tunes of The Wind Chimes, the second part of the Islands chorus is the main tune of When The Night's On Fire, the main tune of To France is repeated at the background of the chorus of Talk About Your Life, Embers and From The Ashes are nearly the same... plus the TB main sequence repeated all along his works. Have a look at the reference guide: http://tubular.net/tcmorg/

Quote
Any one heard any stuff that never made it apart from the small official midi files on the official site? (daliphant etc)

Daliphant and Landing demos weren't included at the Tr3s Lunas game. A variation of Daliphant could be heard on the swords game.
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timshen Offline




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Posted: July 10 2004, 07:34

How can I get a copy of Excalibur? I'd love to hear it.

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torbenyj Offline




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Posted: July 10 2004, 11:05

http://www.bigmike.it/mikeoldfield/
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timshen Offline




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Posted: July 11 2004, 06:48

Thanks torbenyj  :D

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Jammer Offline




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Posted: July 11 2004, 11:30

I really like the arpeggiating synth at the beginning of the track. It sounds quite similar to some of the synth sounds on Incantations

Other reasons for not including it in the album may have been:

The extra space it took up, though this is probably unlikely judging by the size of the album

How similar it might have been to 'Santa Maria' - the harmonica tune from 'BSU' is used as its main theme, but I think this would have helped the integrity of the tracks than been a copy. I agree with Spinne there. As 'Santa Maria' follows after 'Excalibur' it wouldn't have been much of a contrast when the concept of the album was to look at different periods of history. Also, coming from Arthurian country I can tell you that Excalibur is concerned with legend and not factual history. This might have not flowed into Santa Maria as Pacha Mama does (in terms of the liner notes!)

The inclusion of another track that couldn't be incorporated into 'The Millennium Bell' finale, and perhaps wouldn't have been suitable for performance in Berlin - I don't remember much guitar (if any) in this track that Mike could have played live

I also noticed that Amber Light is placed after TMB. I didn't download the whole album, but perhaps this might be differently structured. If anyone has heard it in full please let me know if I'm downloading something different to what the finished album was
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Spinne Offline




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Posted: July 14 2004, 15:20

Well, if you have eMule I suggest to download the APE files that are there and have been taken directly from the demo. APE is a lossless format so once you restore the wav files or made an audio CD with them you have an exact copy of the original while MP3 are a lossy format, in fact 128kbps MP3s are the standar on internet but aren't CD quality. The eMule link is ed2k://|file|Mike.Oldfield.-.The.Millennium.Bell.(Early.Mix.including.Excalibur).-.APE.Format.-.By.
OMA.rar|303839712|A4D1B8C9905C96CCD9F9E302B7C34B2B|/


Quote (Jammer @ July 11 2004, 11:30)
I also noticed that Amber Light is placed after TMB. I didn't download the whole album, but perhaps this might be differently structured. If anyone has heard it in full please let me know if I'm downloading something different to what the finished album was.


Well, all the songs are different, some slightly but different. Nativity (Peace On Earth) has no lyrics at this stage, only a voice singing the tune. Also no chorus and a variation at the end that makes the track not so monotonous. Pacha Mama has also some changes on lyrics and instrumentation. Santa Maria is more similar to the final one but has some differences too (for example, the male chorus aren't present). Sunlight Shining Through Cloud has not Amazing Grace on its lyrics and features... a rap  :O It also has a little and shy guitar solo near the end. The Doge's Palace is completely instrumental, no chorus and some interesting (IMO) variations on the tune. I haven't checked Lake Constance but I think is also slightly different but I don't know exactly what  :cool: Mastermind is nearly the same with the gangs sounds at a higher level and more noticiable. Broad Sunlit Uplands as in the promo version includes some Winston Churchill's speches at the start and end of the track. Emancipation (Liberation) doesn't include excerpts fron Anne Frank's Diary, it's totally instrumental. Also it includes a drum sample from another well-known album. Could you recognize which one? :) The Millennium Bell is a totally different track that for some reason had been rejected as Excalibur. This one was replaced by a new one that uses the same tittle and also mixes a few tunes from the previous tracks. And this are the only similar facts between the track on the demo and the one released. The main tune of this track was lately used on the first MusicVR Amber Light has a different start, the guitar solo is made with other instrument and as you can imagine, this time the song has an end (not as the official one that ends suddenly).

I used to think that having done a lot of new music for MVR maybe he could have used the tune of Excalibur on the game and the song that better suit this description for me was the song played at the swords game. I was wrong, but not so much. The main tune of Excalibur also appears on BSU so there wasn't exactly something not published. But as I have said before there was another song on this demo that doesn't appear on the final version, and is the track TMB. And this time yes, the main tune of this track is used on MVR, on the bat cave sequence. But also there's a curious fact on the sword game music. All the demo tracks that Mike upped to his page while working on MVR where included on the final game except two: Landing and Daliphant. Well, the sword game theme has the same tune that Daliphant but done with electric guitars and usually both are mixed together on MVR fan mixes... but this is another topic ;)

Before ending this long long answer (hope nobody has fallen sleep :zzz: ) I have to say that a long time ago I did my own version of a cover for this demo based on the original demo and the official album sleeves. The ones on that page that torbenyj has said are very tiny to be printed, so maybe you would like to have a look here. And also the Excalibur lyrics have been discussed here. Maybe we must start discussing on the rap lyrics of the SSTC demo
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: July 15 2004, 10:01

Dear goodness, a rap on Sunlight Shining Through Cloud? And I thought nothing on Earth could be worse than the original!... though maybe I'm overreacting. On second thought, Eminem rapping must be less obnoxious than that.

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Jammer Offline




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Posted: July 20 2004, 16:56

Heh - I must give the album a listen then. There should really be a guide to the tracks like the one you've written. Perhaps someone could write a more in-depth analysis of the differences?

I'm very intrigued on this rap. Though I haven't yet heard it, I think it was a wise move for Mike not to inflict this on his already despairing fans :)
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Holger Offline




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Posted: July 20 2004, 18:50

Another reason why he might not have included it is that Excalibur is a sword and therefor a symbol of warfare, which might not fit in with the "Peace on Earth" theme of the album. The sword is still on the cover, and it looks a bit odd there with all that colourful happy-scrappy stuff.
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dkaycom Offline




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Posted: July 21 2004, 15:48

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ July 15 2004, 16:01)
Dear goodness, a rap on Sunlight Shining Through Cloud? And I thought nothing on Earth could be worse than the original!... though maybe I'm overreacting. On second thought, Eminem rapping must be less obnoxious than that.

just out of curiosity: was this written with or without having heard the tune at all?

and to your eminem-part: well, I like both, SSTC incl. the "Rap" and much of Eminem's stuff....
:)


Later,

dkay

NP: Fading Colours - Catch your Time


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: July 21 2004, 18:10

Well, to put it mildly, I'll just say that 'Sunlight Shining Through Cloud' is the worst track among the 1300 items I currently have in my Winamp library, and probably the worst thing in my entire collection. And I'm actually undecided whether the rap is a *good* think or not, considering the original. I'm not going to take my time to download that demo, really. I never want to listen to that... that thing again.

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dkaycom Offline




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Posted: July 21 2004, 18:29

ahhh, as I thought.... judgin' without foundation....
;)

Later,

dkay [who -for his view/listenin' point- has heard a bunch of worse stuff, even officialy released material durin' the last 2X years (the 1st six don't really count)].


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olracUK Offline




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Posted: July 21 2004, 19:06

The topic is excaliber, but we've drifted off to SSTC, so i'll add my tuppence worth. The rap isn't as good as the finished, published version. But it's not a true rap is it? Just the lyrics (Mike's usual "it has to rhyme" stuff) spoken instead of sung with a melody.

Anyway, this version doesn't get the chance to make it to my playlists, but the album version is cd-burnt and in the car. And, i have heard a lot worse, from Mike and others.


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Holger Offline




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Posted: July 22 2004, 05:22

How quick people are to call anything with rhythmically spoken words "rap", and anything dancy and electronic, "techno"... and anything orchestral "classical" for that matter, and so forth...
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: July 22 2004, 07:20

Okay, okay, I'll admit. I always judge things without listening. Always. And the "rap" is not worse than the original, so the original remains the worst thing in my collection. Silly me.

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