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_ShiNe_ Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Jan. 31 2006, 22:46 Quote (EeToN @ Jan. 31 2006, 22:02) Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Jan. 31 2006, 23:22) Did "Mike" tell no to take into account names? why would he name a composition "Our Father" without any reason at all? How does one come up with the name for an instrumental track? Well, it's a bit like the American Indians - when they have a child, the first thing they see is the given name. Someone was apparently called Two Dogs F***ing [laughs]. It's very similar. The first track on the album is called Misty - I have an Arabian filly called Misty and so there you are. 60 second interview, 2002 Regarding the titles of tracks on L+S, you can read about them in Mike's own description here. Well here we go again. You shouldn't take for granted everything you're told. That's what makes people so blind. We're easy to manipulate if we don't "see" what's beyond reality. Scientia est potentia= knoledge is power. It is in here where we have to "discover" the mysterious puzzles planted in his music/names/images.Cos you know, Mike is not going to say "why Yes...I named the computer game MAESTRO (MASTER in English) because I'm JESUS-CHRIST!!!"...or is he? Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 04:18 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 03:46) You shouldn't take for granted everything you're told. That's what makes people so blind. The irony in this is wonderful. (Anyone who's reading this - please remember the Da Vinci Code is a novel, sprinkled throughout with a whole mixture of facts, fancies, legends, and hearsay - some reliable, and some not. The way in which the early Christian church dealt with the gnostics is indeed a fascinating story and an important one, but the place to get the most reliable information is not from Dan Brown's novel! A little learning is a dangerous thing, as this thread is proving!! ) The goddess has never been forgotten. Anyone who has even a slight knowledge of archaeology or ancient cultures is familiar with her. As I said in my previous posts, we can't escape these archetypal ideas - they are deeply embedded in our psyche, and the way they emerge into art is fascinating and profound. But to try to decode them like a puzzle to find the artist's 'hidden meaning' is indeed to be blind, and to miss the richness of the symbols. You could take any crackpot notion, and dredge through the whole of Mike's work, and find 'clues' to the 'puzzle' in the way you describe. Doesn't that bother you? Don't you see how entirely unreliable the method is? (Dan Brown could probably make a best-seller out of it, though.) Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 07:33 Quote (Alan D @ Feb. 01 2006, 04:18) (Dan Brown could probably make a best-seller out of it, though.) "The Tubular Code". Do you think they can get Clint Howard to star as the Piltdown Man? -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 07:37 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Jan. 31 2006, 12:05) Such examples can be found in "Our Father", Angelique, Return to the Origin, Thou Art in Heaven, The Earth Spirit, Rebirth Tunnel, Mastermind, Pacha Mama and so on...   Profound and meaninful. Aren't two of those from "Tres Lunas II"? Did Mike Oldfield have anything to do with naming those tracks? -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

_ShiNe_ Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 09:12 Quote (Alan D @ Feb. 01 2006, 04:18) Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 03:46) You shouldn't take for granted everything you're told. That's what makes people so blind. The irony in this is wonderful. (Anyone who's reading this - please remember the Da Vinci Code is a novel, sprinkled throughout with a whole mixture of facts, fancies, legends, and hearsay - some reliable, and some not. The way in which the early Christian church dealt with the gnostics is indeed a fascinating story and an important one, but the place to get the most reliable information is not from Dan Brown's novel! A little learning is a dangerous thing, as this thread is proving!! ) The goddess has never been forgotten. Anyone who has even a slight knowledge of archaeology or ancient cultures is familiar with her. As I said in my previous posts, we can't escape these archetypal ideas - they are deeply embedded in our psyche, and the way they emerge into art is fascinating and profound. But to try to decode them like a puzzle to find the artist's 'hidden meaning' is indeed to be blind, and to miss the richness of the symbols. You could take any crackpot notion, and dredge through the whole of Mike's work, and find 'clues' to the 'puzzle' in the way you describe. Doesn't that bother you? Don't you see how entirely unreliable the method is? (Dan Brown could probably make a best-seller out of it, though.) Who cares whether Dan Brown made a best-seller out of it or not? Seems you would like to be in his position just to collect the money! I'm pretty aware that the book is indeed a novel, but Dan Brown is "showing" (making public) some facts which we cannot deny or at least DOUBT about what we've been told to "believe". Of course that anyone who has even a slight knowledge of archeology or ancient cultures is familiar with the godess. But not all of us is interested in that and thanks God, Brown's objective is fulfilled: massive awareness. No, on the contrary. Finding this clues and puzzles is exciting. Imagine...my favourite musician is encoding mysticim in his work!!! That's just EXTRA-ORDINARY Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 11:21 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 14:12) Who cares whether Dan Brown made a best-seller out of it or not? Interesting that the only part of my argument that you chose to discuss was my (rather feeble) joke. Sometimes it helps if you have a sense of humour. Actually, I've been working very hard at solving the hidden meaning of the Light and Shade album. Let's start with the first CD: the title 'light' is only suggestive, but is an important clue. We'll come back to it later. I'll now reveal the secret hints that Mike has cunningly hidden in the track titles: 1. Angelique. We think straight away of angels, of course. Now what associations do we tend to have for angels? They appeared to the shepherds in the Christmas story; we see them on Christmas cards; we often put angels on Christmas trees as decorations. So the first track hints at the idea of Christmas, perhaps of cards or trees. 2. Blackbird. Mike said this was about motorbikes, but let's find his hidden meaning. It won't be obvious... think of a blackbird... a dark silhouette. When do we see dark silhouettes of birds? In the evening of course. So, we now add to the idea of Christmas, the idea of evening, and fading light. 3. The Gate. The gate is the gateway to the path to enlightenment, which we are now very firmly on. So this third track is to encourage us to continue with our interpretation. 4. First steps. Now this is really clever. Mike expects us to have played the game from which this music comes, and so he knows we will associate 'first steps' with our first steps from the origin. So this track symbolises a new beginning - that is, the beginning of the new era, the switch from BC to AD. Christmas again!! If we had any doubts, this would allay them. We know we're on the right track now. Furthermore, that idea of an origin makes us think of the shamanic omphalos - often symbolised as a great tree of life at the origin of all things. Just to clinch it - what does he put at the origin in his game? A cactus!!! (An actual tree would have been too obvious.) We're bang on target. 5. Closer. See how Mike secretly anticipates our every move along the path? He knows when we've solved that 'first steps' clue, we'll be looking for encouragement that we're right - and here it is. He's telling us that we're getting 'closer' to the true meaning of the album. 6. Our Father. Hmmm. Obviously he'll be wanting us to think of a kind of universal father... ha! Father Christmas!!! Of course. The Christmas theme again! 7. Rocky. What does that make us think of? The idea of 'rocking'? - Cradles, of course! the manger! The stable! Christmas again! 8. Sunset. Here again, repeated, we have the clue to the importance of fading light, resonating with the clue given by Blackbird earlier. So let's sum up and see what we get. We have the idea of Christmas - too obvious to miss, once you see it; the idea of angels, perhaps as decoration; the idea of a tree as symbol of an origin; and fading light (sunset, blackbird). Yet the title of the 1st CD is 'Light'. So ... what light do we see when the sun sets, at Christmas, associated with some kind of tree? Why, Christmas tree lights, of course. We switch them on as the light fades. So the 1st CD does indeed have a hidden meaning: it is a great hymn of praise to the joyful switching on of Christmas tree lights! I wonder what the hidden meaning of the second CD, 'Shade', could be? Back to top

Piltdownboy on horseback 22 Group: Members Posts: 1545 Joined: Sep. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:01 Boy, am I enjoying this thread   -------------- "And now we're going to play Platinum!" Back to top

Bill Bobaggins Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:07 Quote (Alan D @ Feb. 01 2006, 11:21) So the 1st CD does indeed have a hidden meaning: it is a great hymn of praise to the joyful switching on of Christmas tree lights! Very astute Alan! -------------- Speak friend and enter. Back to top

EeToN Group: Members Posts: 845 Joined: Sep. 2001 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:17 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 04:46) Well here we go again. You shouldn't take for granted everything you're told. So it's not interesting what Mike said in this case... Why do you ask "Did "Mike" tell no to take into account names?" then? I only can say now: have fun with finding hidden messages in everything, find your happiness in it and of course be open-minded all the time! -------------- If I were music, I would be Enigmatism. Back to top

_ShiNe_ Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:27 Quote (Alan D @ Feb. 01 2006, 11:21) Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 14:12) Who cares whether Dan Brown made a best-seller out of it or not? Interesting that the only part of my argument that you chose to discuss was my (rather feeble) joke. Sometimes it helps if you have a sense of humour. Actually, I've been working very hard at solving the hidden meaning of the Light and Shade album. Let's start with the first CD: the title 'light' is only suggestive, but is an important clue. We'll come back to it later. I'll now reveal the secret hints that Mike has cunningly hidden in the track titles: 1. Angelique. We think straight away of angels, of course. Now what associations do we tend to have for angels? They appeared to the shepherds in the Christmas story; we see them on Christmas cards; we often put angels on Christmas trees as decorations. So the first track hints at the idea of Christmas, perhaps of cards or trees. 2. Blackbird. Mike said this was about motorbikes, but let's find his hidden meaning. It won't be obvious... think of a blackbird... a dark silhouette. When do we see dark silhouettes of birds? In the evening of course. So, we now add to the idea of Christmas, the idea of evening, and fading light. 3. The Gate. The gate is the gateway to the path to enlightenment, which we are now very firmly on. So this third track is to encourage us to continue with our interpretation. 4. First steps. Now this is really clever. Mike expects us to have played the game from which this music comes, and so he knows we will associate 'first steps' with our first steps from the origin. So this track symbolises a new beginning - that is, the beginning of the new era, the switch from BC to AD. Christmas again!! If we had any doubts, this would allay them. We know we're on the right track now. Furthermore, that idea of an origin makes us think of the shamanic omphalos - often symbolised as a great tree of life at the origin of all things. Just to clinch it - what does he put at the origin in his game? A cactus!!! (An actual tree would have been too obvious.) We're bang on target. 5. Closer. See how Mike secretly anticipates our every move along the path? He knows when we've solved that 'first steps' clue, we'll be looking for encouragement that we're right - and here it is. He's telling us that we're getting 'closer' to the true meaning of the album. 6. Our Father. Hmmm. Obviously he'll be wanting us to think of a kind of universal father... ha! Father Christmas!!! Of course. The Christmas theme again! 7. Rocky. What does that make us think of? The idea of 'rocking'? - Cradles, of course! the manger! The stable! Christmas again! 8. Sunset. Here again, repeated, we have the clue to the importance of fading light, resonating with the clue given by Blackbird earlier. So let's sum up and see what we get. We have the idea of Christmas - too obvious to miss, once you see it; the idea of angels, perhaps as decoration; the idea of a tree as symbol of an origin; and fading light (sunset, blackbird). Yet the title of the 1st CD is 'Light'. So ... what light do we see when the sun sets, at Christmas, associated with some kind of tree? Why, Christmas tree lights, of course. We switch them on as the light fades. So the 1st CD does indeed have a hidden meaning: it is a great hymn of praise to the joyful switching on of Christmas tree lights! I wonder what the hidden meaning of the second CD, 'Shade', could be? Well, obviously you're making fun of it. This is quite serious and you're making people missunderstand the real meaning of mystical hints in Mike's music. I'll explain Light+ shade album later (everything in due time) correcting your many mistakes (seems you're not in titled to make this kind of comments) and confusing/invalid arguments. By the way, I've already shared my opinion about Light + shade album in here: http://tubular.net/forums....;t=5914 I said:"To help us understand the importance of the Tree of Life, a story can be told that characterizes the struggle between light and darkness: Light is order, the cosmic laws of creation, while darkness is chaos and death (Mike's Light + Shade?)" Besides, if you know the meaning of Light it's because YOU "clearly" know the meaning of shade. This reminds me to Enigma's lyrics: " If you believe in Light, it's because of obscurity. If you believe in Joy, it's because of sadness, and if you believe in God, it's because of the devil. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:38 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 17:27) This is quite serious and you're making people missunderstand the real meaning of mystical hints in Mike's music. (I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.) Hands up all those who feel they have been misled by my analysis of Light and Shade? Quote Besides, if you know the meaning of Light it's because YOU "clearly" know the meaning of shade. Don't tell anyone because I'm still working on it, but I think it's about how sad it is to switch the Christmas tree lights OFF. I think that's what the angel is crying about. Back to top

_ShiNe_ Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:47 Quote (EeToN @ Feb. 01 2006, 12:17) Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 04:46) Well here we go again. You shouldn't take for granted everything you're told. So it's not interesting what Mike said in this case... Why do you ask "Did "Mike" tell no to take into account names?" then? I only can say now: have fun with finding hidden messages in everything, find your happiness in it and of course be open-minded all the time! You should learn to "see" what's beyond reality. Turn around, and smell what you don't see... What I'm saying is that Mike had to hide (for some reason) the true meaning of his whole career. The Time Has Come (for everybody) to REVEAL Mike's purpose in live. And if you don't like reading this, simply don't. You're not obliged to read and write posts in here Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:48 Alan D: Quote (I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.) Hands up all those who feel they have been misled by my analysis of Light and Shade? No. I think nearly everyone here is used to your humour by now, and those that don't should maybe go read a few other posts. It's very easy to make broad sweeping statements, but very difficult to back them up. Grr, how I hate broad generalisations. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

_ShiNe_ Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:51 Quote (Alan D @ Feb. 01 2006, 12:38) Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 17:27) This is quite serious and you're making people missunderstand the real meaning of mystical hints in Mike's music. (I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.) Hands up all those who feel they have been misled by my analysis of Light and Shade? You can cry or laugh, nobody is making you do what you don't want to do. You're completly FREE.   Thank YOU for this enthusiastic feedback. People is reading thanks to our analysis. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:53 Erm, excuse me for asking, but why are you thanking Alan for making a post? I'm sure it's up to the individual whether they read what they read here, or get anything from it. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:54 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 17:51) Thank YOU for this enthusiastic feedback. People is reading thanks to our analysis. Well, I hope they draw the right conclusions. But I've said my piece; and now I'll leave you to your theories and wish you joy in them. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:56 Good for you Alan. I think I'll do the same. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

_ShiNe_ Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:56 Quote (arron11196 @ Feb. 01 2006, 12:53) Erm, excuse me for asking, but why are you thanking Alan for making a post? I'm sure it's up to the individual whether they read what they read here, or get anything from it. Sure, and thanks to our diffent points of view, people read this. And it's really interesting.   Back to top

Ian Too Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 15:02 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Jan. 31 2006, 17:22) Quote (hiawatha @ Jan. 31 2006, 15:56) Isn't that where the creative energy of Mike Oldfied is focused? In the composition and playing of the music, rather than the names? Are you a 100 % sure about that? Did "Mike" tell no to take into account names? why would he name a composition "Our Father" without any reason at all? Both name, music and images have a reason why, from Tubular Bells to Light+ Shade. Remit to http://tubular.net/forums....;t=5906 to see the meaning of Tubular Bells and Light + Shade. Shine, if you were better read in Mike Oldfield lore, you'd know that Mike didn't know what to call Tubular Bells initially and wanted it released as Opus 1. Hopefully half jokingly and to spur Mike on, Richard Branson suggested it be titled Breakfast in Bed and feature a cover with a boiled egg with blood coming out of it - hence the cover of Heaven's Open. The Tubular Bells title was - as has been said - lifted from the Vivian Stanshall section. What you should remember is that Mike not only did not go to university, but left school early. He is not and to hs credit, would not claim to be a literate man with deep understanding of symbolism; he simply picks up and uses things which he likes. This is why there are so many archetypes: they are ubiquitous and often used by people antithetical to Christianity. If you watched the Faith and Music program he appeared on, you would know that Mike pretty much disavowed all organised religion and claimed that his music was his spirituality. I understand how you would want to incorporate Mike and his music into your speculations, but you really shold learn to step back and take wider view occasionally. Remember that the only authenticated hidden message in Mike's entire ouvre is : F.U.C.K.O.F.F.R.B. It would be interesting to see how you will incorporate that into your pet theory.   -------------- (-: Ian :-) Currently reading: What Remains to be Discovered by John Maddox Also doing far too much decorating than is good for one Back to top

EeToN Group: Members Posts: 845 Joined: Sep. 2001 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 15:18 Quote (_ShiNe_ @ Feb. 01 2006, 18:47) And if you don't like reading this, simply don't. You're not obliged to read and write posts in here In fact, I meant that sentence of mine seriously (that's why I didn't put an emoticon beside it), so I wasn't sarcastic there. If you feel it important to find meanings about everything, just do it! However, I don't think anyone would be glad to join the conversation if you ignore everyone else's opinions as being not open-minded enough. (Anyway, I know about myself that I really could be more open-minded - so I could progress there -, though I find uncontrolled open-mindedness dangerous.) -------------- If I were music, I would be Enigmatism. Back to top

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