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Topic: Classic FM Music Of The Spheres preview podcast< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Aug. 13 2007, 18:55

Quote (larstangmark @ Aug. 13 2007, 20:45)
I think it has occured to at least a couple of "nay sayers" that we're dealing with an artist who seems more than a little concious of how he's perceived by the public; an artist that has gone on record saying he's done several albums of music he didn't care for.

Well...yes, this much is true...but we should be careful to not try and assume we know what Mike is thinking. I don't know any better than anyone else.

What I can say is that from my point of view, there's a difference between making something which you don't care for at the time you're making it, and making something which, looking back, was a bad idea. I would have thought by now that Mike would have had enough chances to look back at his Tubular Bells reworkings and realise that it's not always the best thing to do commercially - he even noted something almost to that effect in a recent interview.

The amount he uses that motif suggests to me that he just likes it. I don't think putting it in Five Miles Out helped sell the song, and I'm not certain the similarities between that and Tubular World helped sell that one either...there's actually a similar little piano motif that pops up in Amarok as well; again, I'm not convinced that was for commercial reasons.

We can't know why he's used that kind of pattern again in Music Of The Spheres. Perhaps he genuinely feels it'll sell more copies of the album if it has a bit that sounds like Tubular Bells...but if I was him, I'd be putting it there because actually, it sounds pretty good...
It's the same with things like the Queen + Paul Rodgers tour. A lot of people jumped to the conclusion that they must be doing it for the money...and who knows...they certainly aren't turning the money down...but to look at it from a musician's point of view, I have to say that Queen did some absolutely great songs, and if I had been in that band, I would want to go out and play those songs again, even if just in the local pub. Of course playing in the local pub is a rather different experience to playing in an arena...and at the end of the day, if some people are prepared to support you in playing arenas (by paying to come and see you), why not do it?
Who knows what it is with Mike. I think there are many things at work there. Certainly the Tubular Bells albums seemed to become ways of securing further record contracts as much as anything else...but I'm sure there's more to even those than simply that. I personally get the sense that he just likes playing with it, and nobody stops him (same as with the Queen tour thing...if you like doing it and someone's prepared to support you in doing that, then it's certainly very tempting to do it). I suspect that in the case of Music Of The Spheres, revisiting Tubular Bells yet again probably had a lot to do with kick starting a new thought process (one which no doubt started with "What made my old albums great?" and ended with that, amongst other things). Perhaps he made the wrong decision in the way he approached it...time will tell...but I have to say I'd prefer to listen to a genuinely creative piece of classical music which has a small section or two which reminds of Tubular Bells than I would to an orchestral Light + Shade.

I don't think drawing the comparisons that they are between MOTS and Tubular Bells is particularly sensible; I think the reaction here might have been rather different had Universal let us handle this in the way we'd have liked...which to be honest is the source of a certain amount of frustration here and is no doubt leading to me getting rather more ratty than would be ideal. Of course 'nay saying' isn't trolling, but sometimes it's done in a way that makes it difficult to tell the difference, especially when in a curmudgeonly mood. My apologies if I've bitten rather harder than was called for...this old dog will try to stick to just gnawing at bones and furniture (and occasionally chasing the postman) in future.
Still, we hope we'll be able to bring you yet more interesting things in the coming months, and I hope above all that at least most of the people who visit this site will come away from it all feeling that Music Of The Spheres is worth a listen.
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 01:09

Quote (north star @ Aug. 13 2007, 17:01)
time after time ,instead of something new...Tub Bells was re hashed...what a wast of time.

I see each of Mike's 'Tubular Bells' albums as brilliant individual works. I wouldn't part with any of them, so I strongly disagree with that statement.

This is my first experience in following the process of a MO album, and it's great to get all of these updates. If it were still pre-internet days, I wouldn't even be aware of this project, and since I'm in the US that would probably remain the case even after its release. Being able to track Music of the Spheres from one stage to the next is pretty nifty.

I don't recall my initial reaction to the news that MO was making a classical piece but, as I familiarized myself with his previous works, it made more and more sense that he would do so. Hearing the short clips on this program has strengthened my suspicion that Mike has a great capacity for classical composition. If the first soundclip evokes the TB opening theme, it is variegated enough to make me uncertain of its intention toward that end. To my ears, both of the snippets sound beautiful. Forgive the outdated expression, but I am totally stoked for this album.

ETA

Quote (Korgscrew @ Aug. 13 2007, 18:55)
I'd prefer to listen to a genuinely creative piece of classical music which has a small section or two which reminds of Tubular Bells than I would to an orchestral Light + Shade.

Hmmm. Considering how much I enjoy L+S, I'm all for a 'Surfing' symphony, a requiem for 'Ringscape', a 'Blackbird' bourree, or a 'Nightshade' nocturne.


--------------
"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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Ratty Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 04:24

Quote (Alan D @ Aug. 13 2007, 19:56)
I'm thrilled to bits with the little I've heard of Mike's new piece, so far. I feared that he'd somehow get lost in the orchestral transformation. I know now that he won't.

Thank you Alan. At least there is someone else who thought that the new pieces sounded fresh and vibrant. I cant believe that almost three months before the album is released most of you guys have consigned MOTS to the "TB rip off bin". It makes my blood boil.
So theres a passing resemblance to TB, i am all for it, theres also another 40+ minutes of music we havent heard so why so many judgements, disappointed posts and such negativity. Mike wont be bothered about repetitiveness, why should he be...its his mantra, how hes recognised.
Maybe the time to make decisions on the music is when we have heard it. You guys are almost making yourselves not want to like the new album because you "think" its going to sound like TB.


--------------
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells
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Mix Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 13:10

Quote (Ratty @ Aug. 14 2007, 04:24)
Quote (Alan D @ Aug. 13 2007, 19:56)
I'm thrilled to bits with the little I've heard of Mike's new piece, so far. I feared that he'd somehow get lost in the orchestral transformation. I know now that he won't.

Thank you Alan. At least there is someone else who thought that the new pieces sounded fresh and vibrant. I cant believe that almost three months before the album is released most of you guys have consigned MOTS to the "TB rip off bin". It makes my blood boil.
So theres a passing resemblance to TB, i am all for it, theres also another 40+ minutes of music we havent heard so why so many judgements, disappointed posts and such negativity. Mike wont be bothered about repetitiveness, why should he be...its his mantra, how hes recognised.
Maybe the time to make decisions on the music is when we have heard it. You guys are almost making yourselves not want to like the new album because you "think" its going to sound like TB.

I'm pretty sure your "most of you guys"-expression is not correct here. I'm sure most of us have a positive outlook on all this. I have been hoping a classical album from Mike for 15 years. His long works, to me, was a proof that he has the ability to do it. And after "Tres Lunas" and "Light+Shade", both of which are of style I wish Mike to stay away from, I have hoped for a change even more.

His going back to the works such as TB, Ommadawn, Hergest Ridge etc... seemed very remote - he is not the same man anymore, after 30+ years. So the switch to classical music was the best possible news for me in this light. And the extracts we have heard, make me at least very optimistic about the outcome.

Mike's early works, the long compositions, "The Wind Chimes" - and also many of the shorter ones such as "Mont St. Michel", "The Lake", "Lake Constance", "The Inner Child" (oh there are many) are evidence that Mike has great sense of drama, and plenty of emotions inside him. In this respect, to me it is a natural and welcome turn in his career.

I am also thrilled to bits in expectation!
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jeremyroberts Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 14:46

I stop reading reactions of fans by now.

Someone listening to the 1st excerpt many times and hearing nothing more than a Tubular Bells theme?

That IS depressing...
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Philippe Tavares Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 17:50

:O  :(  Be careful , i'm angry... I know it's very difficult to a French Oldfield fan to be heard/understood by English fans ( perhaps because of the language or the old quarrels of our common history :D ... for me there's no difference ; French or English or other , the most important is that Mike has someone in the world for loving his music ) So , maybe you won't pay attention to what i'm going to tell you but i want to tell it to you anyway !  

Everybody , here, knows that Mike had a lot of problems  ( certainly too much and surely more than us ) in his life . And i think we don't help him with : " it would be better like that or i would prefer this ... " ...

Ehhh !!! Let him play and compose what he wants !!! That's all !

His new piece of music seems to be like Tubular Bells ? And then what ? For me it's ok ! No problem !
I'm going to BUY his new album and i'm going to love or not this new album ! But the most respectful way is that we don't have to tell to Mike what he must to do .

I've loved the music of Mike since i was twelve and i will die loving his music . !

Sorry but i'm angry !  :/
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 18:04

Errr... cookies, anyone?



--------------
"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2007, 19:06

Yum!! Thank you Sweetpea for that.

Now, whilst I dunk my cookies in my tea, I will contemplate all the posts above.

*contemplates*

wait.....

nearly there....

maybe just ONE more chocolate chip.....

OK, here's my thoughts..

I've heard less than 30 seconds of the new album. I have heard Mike say he was "moved to tears", and I've heard him talk bollocks before. The 30 second clip sounded a bit like TB, but I have seen TV edits turn Nobel Laureates into War Mongorers.

Mike has nearly always done what he thought was best at the time. And this will be his current "best", which is usually a lot better than just about anybody else I listen to. Mike will probably change his mind about his direction, never talk about this again. And I may decide it's his best ever work, or that it falls below Voyager in my own choices.

\/\/@t-evr n00bs - I'm gonna listen to the whole thing - then decide.

Any more cookies left?


--------------
The answer is 42 - but what is the question?
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 06:03

Quote (Ratty @ Aug. 14 2007, 04:24)
I cant believe that almost three months before the album is released most of you guys have consigned MOTS to the "TB rip off bin". It makes my blood boil.
So theres a passing resemblance to TB, i am all for it, theres also another 40+ minutes of music we havent heard so why so many judgements, disappointed posts and such negativity. Mike wont be bothered about repetitiveness, why should he be...its his mantra, how hes recognised.
Maybe the time to make decisions on the music is when we have heard it. You guys are almost making yourselves not want to like the new album because you "think" its going to sound like TB.

Come off it chap are you not in danger of jumping to conclusions too? I haven't read a single post here by anybody wanting to consign MOTS to the TB rip off bin  So what do you mean by 'most of you guys? I think criticisms that Mike uses a TB like intro to often in his music are perfectly valid. You don't have to agree with them but unlike some of the other negativity that has surrounded Mike I would would say it is one of the more valid criticisms. So why should Mike be bothered about criticisms that he uses it to often you ask? The main reason I would be bothered if I were him is that it over shadows all the other great music he's written. I'm sure you're aware that there are a lot of people out there who think Mike isn't capable of writing or selling music that doesn't contain some reference to TB bells in it. To be honest thats what makes my blood boil as a fan of his. I don't really like to see Mike mocked they way he is. But if it doesn't bother Mike so be it and he's certainly brought it on himself.

Anyway I do agree with you that its way to early to start getting upset about anything without hearing the whole album. And I like what I've heard so far.
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Ratty Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 06:33

Toby, i take your point and maybe i have jumped to conclusions too. I guess that the eager anticipation that i (and no doubt others) feel for a new Mike Oldfield recording is somewhat tempered by the constant referrals and comparisons to TB. I just want MOTS to stand on its own two feet and be recognised as a new & fresh recording and not yet another revisit to TB.
i agree that using "most of you guys" as a generalisation with hindsight was a little far fetched and that revisiting the posts actually indicates that most people are looking forward to the album. I guess my passion for Mike got the better of me and i saw red!!(profuse apologies guys)
I still believe that there is nothing wrong with Mike using a similar type riff / tune to TB in any of his recordings..MOTS included.
Yes you are also correct in saying that there are lots of people out there who think Mike cant compose anything other than a TB clone, that makes me so angry too but isnt a lot of this down to the various record companies mike has worked with reissuing past cds, revamping and repackaging, wanting their best of compilations!
Maybe, just maybe this will be the recording that proves to all those people that he isnt in fact a one trick pony.


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Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 12:14

Quote (Ratty @ Aug. 15 2007, 11:33)
I still believe that there is nothing wrong with Mike using a similar type riff / tune to TB in any of his recordings..MOTS included.

Yes, I agree entirely.

I remember watching an interview somewhere (an early one - but don't ask me precise details of when and where) where he sits and plays the little TB intro sequence on guitar, and talks about its simplicity, and how it's capable of virtually infinite variation. That's the interesting part - the potential for variation and exploration, starting from (approximately) a similar musical place.

Personally, I love those little moments of recognition, which I'd say are not moments of repetition but of reference. They bring with them a sense of unity of purpose - a bit like a characteristic signature (like Whistler's 'butterfly' ). If you take something like Wagner's 'Ring' - four operas spanning a large chunk of a lifetime's work - similar themes (leitmotives) occur all the way through for dramatic purposes. It would be ridiculous to criticise Gotterdammerung because it uses themes also heard in Rheingold, because such repeated references are part of the basic musical philosophy underlying the whole concept of the work. Wagner wants you to experience certain dramatic and musical ideas at certain times, and this is how he does it.

Now, I'm not suggesting for a moment that Mike's repeated TB references are the same kind of thing as Wagner's leitmotives; clearly they're not. But I see no reason at all why he shouldn't use something like the same basic idea, planting these little musical references among his life's work, reminding the listener of certain themes, and generating a sense of continuity.

If you think Mike is a pop artist, then this would be foolish, because pop music requires constant novelty. ("Bring on the new tricks! We're tired of the old ones.") But if he's an artist of substance (as surely most of us think he is), he'll go his own way regardless; and if an honest artistic statement requires these self-references, then that is what we'll get, whether we think we know better or not.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 13:26

I think the reason some people are critical of Mike self referencing the TB intro these days is that it does come across sometimes that he's run out of ideas and using a TB like riff is the lowest common denominator of what he needs to do in order to get a piece of music noticed. I have no problem with Mike self referencing himself, all artists and composers do it, but there is an element of 'here we go again' whenever Mike does it because he's done it to death and way more directly than any other artist I can think of. By all means there's nothing wrong in subtly using a TB like riff here and there in his vast musical output. But whats less than subtle is calling your album TB2, TB3 or TB2003.  I think some people could be forgiven for starting to yawn at him and become cynical of what TB is actually about other than making him money and getting him noticed. However thats a general argument about his career. As we've all said there's no point in debating MOTS until we've heard it.  

ps Alan i think the interview you're talking about is from the Essential MO video.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 16:39

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 15 2007, 18:26)
I think some people could be forgiven for starting to yawn at him and become cynical of what TB is actually about other than making him money and getting him noticed.

Don't you think though, Toby, that those are mainly the kind of people who'd say things like:

[to Wagner] Still banging on about that bloody gold ring are we, Richard? How many years is that, then? Yawn ....
[to Monet] What's the next one then Claude? Oh, yeah ... more waterlilies, eh? Yawn ....

There are of course artists who develop a formula, find it successful, and start churning out work following the formula. They cease to be artists in any meaningful sense when they do that, and deserve to lose our patience. But although MO may have gone through periods of staleness, or limited inspiration (and interestingly we'd probably have trouble agreeing what they are), I don't believe he's formulaic - not in essence. Listening to that little snippet from MOTS, I'm struck by its inventiveness; its freshness; and almost paradoxically, its familiarity. If people aren't hearing that newness - if they're switching off because it sounds too TB-like - then I'd suggest they're probably missing something important.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 17:36

Quote (Alan D @ Aug. 15 2007, 16:39)
There are of course artists who develop a formula, find it successful, and start churning out work following the formula. They cease to be artists in any meaningful sense when they do that, and deserve to lose our patience.

But that is unfortunately how Mike is viewed by a lot of people these days as far as TB is concerned, rightly or wrongly. In a lot of peoples minds there is a fine line between those artists who spend their entire lives endlessly and laboriously trying to do the same thing over and over again trying to perfect it and those artists who as you say Alan just find a formula that is an easy route to success and stick to it. I know there is a big difference between the two but I think in a lot of peoples minds there isn't, it certainly takes a whopping amount of artistic credibility to prove you're doing the former and not the later. Even with that there a lot of people out there, myself included, who do yawn at Monet's waterlillies.

For me it is playing the devils advocate a bit to say that Mike's TB releases is him doing what Monet and countless other artists do in ceaselessly tinkering with their work and perfecting it. At what point will enough be enough, TB4, TB5, TB6? If it were artistically credible to do it in modern contemporary music a lot more artists/bands would release follow up sequels to their best selling albums (god knows the record companies would love it) but other than Mike Meat Loaf is the only other high profile artist to do it that I know of.  

So in the end my argument would be yes it can be artistically credible to endlessly rehash your art if you can justify it. Does that way of working translate to contemporary popular music - clearly not.

ps I wouldn't say Mike was formulaic either. It would be interesting to do the maths but I wonder what percentage of his entire musical output is related in someway to TB, probably less than 10%.
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ImAFoolAndImLaughing Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2007, 17:42

Quote (Alan D @ Aug. 15 2007, 16:39)
[to Wagner] Still banging on about that bloody gold ring are we, Richard? How many years is that, then? Yawn ....
[to Monet] What's the next one then Claude? Oh, yeah ... more waterlilies, eh? Yawn ....

Some more...

[to Van Gogh] Oh, please, Vincent! Not more swirly things!
[to Ted Hughes] That bloody crow again! Can't you do some poems about pigeons, or hummingbirds, or lesser-spotted tits or something...
[to Philip Glass] Oh God! Not those notes again....!


I personally don't have a problem with Mike using a Bellish motif to "em-Bell-ish" (haha) his work, provided they're different enough to distinguish them from his earlier works, and aurally interesting enough to keep me intrigued. To me, his "hammers" (as he insists on calling them) are akin to his signature embedded within his work - you hear it, you think "Ah - Mike Oldfield!", and you keep listening, not because you want to hear the similarities, but because you're keen to spot the differences.

Mike, more than any artist I know, has endeavoured to experiment with different forms and techniques throughout his discography, even when those experiments have been less successful (or at least, been less well-received) than others. Sure, TubularBells-is-TubularBellsTwo-is-TubularBellsThree, but that's why he named them as he did - they're a sequence of sequels along similar themes. But Ommadawn-isn't-Incantations-isn't-TheWindChimes-isn't-Amarok-isn't-TheKillingFields.

In the end, if you want to hear a totally different piece of music, every single time, buy an album by a different artist every single time. If you don't mind hearing a musician playing with - and building on - the musical ideas that have lasted throughout his career, then stick with Mike! :D


--------------
"I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these kind of Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and I wasn't tempted to buy one but I was reminded of the fact that I had been avoiding the beach."
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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 16 2007, 06:17

A point I've not seen raised so far is that with some of Mike's longer complex instrumentals, short excerpts don't seem to make sense heard outside of the longer piece.

The latter of the clips could well reflect music heard earlier on in the album and heard in context sound even more beautiful. The Tubular Bells-esque riff may be no longer than what we've heard for all we know and make perfect sense in the context of the rest of the music.

I feel, in terms of our relationship to MOTS, hearing short excerpts isn't really very productive. I think far better to wait for the album proper. From an advertising perspective though
it's done the job, we're obviously all in some sort of excitement for it.


--------------
Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 16 2007, 06:36

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 15 2007, 22:36)
For me it is playing the devils advocate a bit to say that Mike's TB releases is him doing what Monet and countless other artists do in ceaselessly tinkering with their work and perfecting it.

I don't really agree with that description of what they do. I don't think it's ceaseless tinkering and perfecting. I think it's ceaseless exploration - and I think the difference is huge. Monet found that there was infinite scope for exploration in the combination of light, water, and waterlilies, and it's that ceaseless exploring that lifts the work to greatness. (Maybe there's a broader issue here though, Toby, about what makes a great artist great: for me, a crucial element is the sense of him discovering/creating out on the edge of the known.)

I really do think the parallels with MO are quite strong. TB2003 would fit into your category of tinkering and perfecting - but the others represent exploration, or extension; not tinkering to achieve perfection. How well they succeed, of course, is something we've long debated here, and that's a different issue.
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TEP Offline




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Posted: Aug. 31 2007, 08:37

Interesting concept - one journalist interviewing another about inerviewing Mike.  :p

Can't wait to hear more of MOTS - it sounds awesome. It would be fine with me if Mike spent the rest of his career exploring the themes of TB.

Did anybody recognize some TB references in the second part?
I think there are some, but couldn't quite put my finger on it.
I'm no good at these things, but it seems to me there were some quotes from one or some of the quiter parts of TB.
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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Aug. 31 2007, 13:18

sound's great, all of it.

--------------
I, ON THE OTHER HAND. AM A VICTIM OF YOUR CARNIVOUROUS LUNAR ACTIVITY.
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Sep. 05 2007, 05:02

I don't suppose anyone has gone and made an audio file of just the music bits?

--------------
"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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