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Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 19 2000, 18:27 Another addition... I just received a phone call from a learned friend of mine living in Rome, who also reads these pages...his name is Davide Marino, but I don't know if now he is in Rome or elsewhere (he phoned me from a cellular phone, of which I don't remember the number...maybe I don't even have it...) He says it's a very bad form of Sanskrit (a language notable for its open, sonorous vowels).As he thinks that the words are neither gramatically not phonetically correct, he can't say if the chant has a meaning or not. P.S. Although he can write in English,he does not speak English or any other foreign language...only Italian. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Vinz Group: Members Posts: 253 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: April 20 2000, 03:46 Hum, OK, well, sorry... The next time I will check my informations :-p ! Keep doing your work, it's really interesting... [This message has been edited by Vinz (edited 04-20-2000).] -------------- Rejoignez la Tubular Mailing List francophone ! http://www.tubular.free.fr/tubular.php Back to top

Cipher Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: Mar. 2000 Posted: April 20 2000, 04:39 WOW! This is a really interesting investigation! [X-Files music here] After all these years thinking that in HR were only ahhs, now someone founds that there is a secret message down there! Incredible! I'm enjoying this very much, please, keep on! (Now I'm going to listen again HR loudly, maybe I'll find something... Or may I listen in back sense? Mmm...) Back to top

GMOVJ Group: Members Posts: 273 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 20 2000, 09:41 Quote Originally posted by Ugo: Incantations lyrics not only mean something, but they make perfect sense, since they are taken from a poem by Longfellow... Yes, that's perfectly true. I guess Vinz was talking about the Diana section : (As usual, a Amarok Player Tracklist. This is of course unofficial, but very useful to discuss about timing and section) Tk|Min|Sec|CDFrame|Subtrack Name 01:08:56:35 Ceremonial 01:09:41:40 Diana I (Diana, Luna, Lucina) 01:14:12:65 Diana Variations Three kind of lyrics in Inc. : 1) non-words lyrics 2) Diana sections, with only 'Diana, Luna, Lucina' 3) 2 Songs : 'Hiawatha Departure'+'The Son of the Evening Star' at the end of Part 2 from Longfellow, and 'Ode to Cynthia', sometimes called 'Hymn to Diana' by some 'Oldfieldians' at the end of part 4. No news from my Gaelic friend... Maybe next week ! But I don't have ANY friend who speaks Sanscrit ! ByBye, GMOVJ -------------- Cheers, GMOVJ [URL=http://tubular.fodplanet.com]http://tubular.fodplanet.com[/URL] - The french speaking mailing list Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 20 2000, 18:27 That's an interesting transcription, Ugo...interesting because mine looks completely different ;-). I was thinking along the lines of... barta di éna labarto olcorta dolmonya o rasto regala aaaaah resteh mena. A few of the words have alternatives... Barta: Porta, Borla Dolmonya: Olmonya Rasto: definately turns up at least once as Rastostar Regala: Recaro, Regara Resteh: Rasto As for the sanskrit possibility, that's interesting as well...someone suggested that to me as well. There was also the suggestion of an African language of some sort, but I'm not sure about that one either (but then, I haven't been sure about anything...). One thing I've been trying to figure is, if they are in a foreign language, why are they? They usually seem to be the native language of the musicians, in most of mike's music. Here, it seems like it might not be, so there must be some other significance...Being sanskrit would make sense - that would bring in the possibility of it coming, perhaps from Hindu scriptures or something like that (I believe they'd be written in sanskrit...I might be terribly wrong there). I think this is one to think about carefully... Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 20 2000, 19:28 These are some comments on your transcription, Korgscrew... 1) Borla: OK, though the B is not really much audible. 2) di éna is what I had written as bee-yeh-na. Yours is closer and more credible. 3) Labarto: are you really sure that there is a R in the middle? I think Labato is closer. 4) Olcorta: Ditto for the R in the middle...sounds line Oncota at the end (see note 5). 5) Olmonya: It's OK for the first three repetitions of the chant. I wrote Ormonia in my handwritten transcription, which I typed wrongly. That's why I thought it was Armònia...because I transcripted the ending chant [the one that starts at 17:18,not 11:18 as I had mistakenly written in one of my first messages in this topic]... and down there that word becomes Ormònia. 6) Rasto: NO! IMHO this is Besto or Vesto (with a veeeeeeeeery open E) and surely never at all Rastostar. It seems to become Vusto or Busto at the end, but maybe this is because of the recorder note played right on the top of that vowel... 7) Regara is OK. I wrote Rekà-ah, but you did better by summing it up in one word. 8) Resteh or Rasto: Ditto as for Rasto [see above... ] Reste is OK without the H. But why didn't you sum up as before? (Aaaaah + Reste = Arreste = "Stop" [imperative] in Mediaeval Latin. So apparently Latin has at least a little bit [one word...] to do with this.) 9) Mena (or Nena) is OK. Please answer in the forum and tell me what do you think of this. ...And please don't take my NO's badly.I'm just expressing an opinion. P.S. I think my friend Davide is wrong. To my ears it does sound too Western to be Sanskrit... [This message has been edited by Ugo (edited 04-20-2000).] -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 20 2000, 20:35 In response to your thoughts... Borla - this word is one of the ones I had most trouble with. Those possibilities are as close as I can get, after playing the section at different speeds, with enhancements, etc...it could be almost anything, though... Labarto - It depends how you pronounce things, whether you can put an r in the middle or not ;-) I could actually have written this as labahto as well, or even labato. I was just indicating a long a sound. Olcorta - I definately get an r, especially with the chant at the end. Or rather, I get an "aw" sound (olcawta would look silly, though...). Rastostar - Listen to it the very first time the chant is sung; the word has 3 syllables. When it's repeated, though, it shortens to 2. The first letter could, at a pinch, perhaps be a v. It would have to be pronounced oddly, though...I still think it's an r (stubborn person that I am ). It also seems to be an aaaah sound that the word has, rather than e. Resteh - You could take the h off the end. I was indicating that the is is making more that 'ay' sound than the shorter e. I wouldn't have combined it with the aaah, though, but maybe with mena. That's unless it's arrestémena... As for the language...it doesn't quite sound like anything I've heard...almost any language is possible, really, as it's probably sung with the wrong accent... Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 20 2000, 20:45 To go further down the Latin path, regalis means regal....regala could be seen as stemming from that (the a would seem to indicate that it's feminine) - perhaps in a Latin based language. I think really that we're clutching at straws with that one, though. What has to be found is a language that contains at least a good few, if not all of the words... It is possible, as Vinz has suggested, that they mean nothing (The Diana lyrics in Incantations are from Hymn to Diana by Ben Jonson, BTW). As yet, we just don't know... [This message has been edited by Korgscrew (edited 04-21-2000).] Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 21 2000, 08:11 This is rather a personal comment than a reply to anyone. I was just seeing how interestingly long is this topic becoming (I think that only the "Mike Oldfield Dead?" one is longer...). It had begun with what I thought was a very simple question, i.e. what language was the chant in (though I'm more and more convinced it's in no language, it's invented...),but it's gradually turning into a Mulder & Scully [or Ugo & Korgscrew ] X-Files-style investigation (Cipher was right!)...and you know what? All this is making me absolutely glad about it! Thank you all!!! I was also asking myself why such a thing was never mentioned (up to now) in the Forums. They exist (I think) ever since the site was launched, yet no-one ever mentioned this before me...maybe it's because everyone, when listening to HR Part 2, did only pay attention to the Thunderstorm section...and nobody noticed the mysterious words sung before and after it... -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 27 2000, 19:02 Hi, Mary-Carol...just saw your 'changed' notice on the Tubular Forums index page... Don't tell me even you didn't know about the existence of this chant!! And to all the others: it's more than one week I don't receive any more answers. Are you all asleep or are you all researching? -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 27 2000, 22:13 I can't speak for the others, but I'm definately asleep I did take a little look at some sanskrit texts to see if that language might be a possibility. The more I look at those, the smaller that possibility gets - although a few words are similar to the HR chant, there are far more that aren't. I've not heard sanskrit spoken, but I do hear the modern Indian languages spoken occasionally and they sound nothing like the HR chant. The idea of it being nonsense is obviously a possibility - remember that in the original HR mix, the lyrics weren barely audible. Would they have been buried in the mix if they meant something? I think there are fairly strong cases both for the chanting being in a meaningful language and for it being completely made up. Either way, I'd love to know the story behind it... Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 28 2000, 21:30 After listening again to the Orchestral Hergest Ridge, I started to think... Although I said that it's difficult to tell what lyrics an opera singer is actually singing sometimes, once you have an idea of what they're meant to be maybe things change... OK, not a major revelation, but I think that the first word may well be 'Torta' rather than 'Barta' or any of my other alternatives. The other thing is that the singer on that recording seems to sing different words the second time round (in the part before the thunderstorm section)...either they found some extra lyrics from somewhere, or it's all nonsense so it didn't matter what she sang...or maybe I'm just imagining the whole thing... Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: May 01 2000, 19:19 I don't know if you're aware of this, Korgscrew, but "Torta" means "Cake" in Italian... -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: May 01 2000, 21:10 Yes, I thought it did...do you think he means something by it? Back to top

dgcaer Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: Dec. 2000 Posted: Aug. 24 2001, 16:00 I rode all your post, and it seem that all the lyrics we seem make sense are in Latin or in Italian. Latin and Italian are very close language. Maybe all the text is in Italian. It's the best possibility. I think that it is Italian with a very bad accent. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Aug. 24 2001, 18:51 It sounds like it, but I would have thought that Ugo would have recognised it all if it was in Italian. Clodagh Simmonds, who sang on the album, is apparently known for making up nonsense lyrics - I think she may have done that here. On another note, I transcribed those words from an LP copy. I bought the remastered CD, which sounds far, far clearer, and some of them now sound slightly different to me. I'm not sure it's worth re-transcribing though, unless somebody out there thinks they definitely recognise what language it's in and are able to translate parts of it. Back to top

dgcaer Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: Dec. 2000 Posted: Aug. 27 2001, 10:05 Transcribe them Korgscrew ! We will see. I'm Freanch Speaker and for me the song sound like. Dota Diena Labato Oncota Dolmonya Augusto Negara A Bestan Bena or Augusto Bena Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 02 2001, 16:10 dgcaer: if I knew it was Italian, I wouldn't have started this topic in the first place, would I? Please re-read my original post. Korgscrew: Excellent as usual. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

dgcaer Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: Dec. 2000 Posted: Sep. 04 2001, 11:57 -delete- I was confused! Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 04 2001, 17:02 I think we've come to the conclusion that they don't mean a thing. They're invented words. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

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