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Holger Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 06:49

Quote (Scatterplot @ June 26 2008, 12:34)
I am. I love MIDI.

Oh, I wasn't referring to you, just to the direction the thread had taken in general. And I agree, MIDI is good.  :)
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Scatterplot Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 07:33

I think all threads should fray off in many directions. It makes for chaos......and fun!

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We raise our voices in the night
Crying to heaven
And will our voices be heard
Or will they break Like the wind
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Holger Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 07:42

Mmh... well, basically I agree! In this case though, I just thought there was no need to spoil the party. No big deal though.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 10:49

Party? PARTY? This is a sacred ritual! It's a ceremony of holy praise for THE MASTER. Now SIT DOWN and watch us KILL THE LAMBS.

--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 13:42

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 26 2008, 15:49)
Now SIT DOWN and watch us KILL THE LAMBS.

We had two pet lambs, once, for a short time (because a local farmer had more than he could cope with, one year). They ate everything growing in the garden, but they were so personable and entwined themselves into our lives so deeply that we all became vegetarian for a year after they'd gone.

And the High Priests will say: "Thou art Off Topic! Begone!"
And I shall reply: "Mayhap, I am. But I may as well be hanged for a lamb as well as a sheep."

But also, I shall observe that Mike Oldfield has spoken thus: "I'd like to see more variety, honesty, creativity, uniqueness, not everybody just following each other like sheep". And lo, I interpret this prophecy to mean that it will be acceptable to follow each other like lambs, instead.
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TheMann Offline




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Posted: July 12 2008, 04:25

I have been thinking about why the re-use of old themes (in particular TB1 & TB2) doesn't bother me even the slightest this time. In the past, it certainly irritated me at places... (but not always, e.g., the Taurus re-use was wonderful).


For one thing, it is the very different feel of the music this time; it is not  simple time-saving, cheap, tricks as I feel it was in some earlier works. You know what I am talking about, endless misplaced references to Tubular Bells...

No, here, in MOTS, it is just as Mike finally has done enough earlier experiments with those motifs and now finally decided about their optimal form. Loads of experience for what they can do ... now implemented with great effect.

I defininetely love the "Harbinger version" of the TB main theme, not to mention the absolutely superb version of the TB main final, Music Universalis, which is just so fantastically powerful in all respects. How refreshing is it not when first that heavy rythmic piano appears in Tempest, and then the guitar enters with force, ... , this is more "Rave" for me than what TB3 ever was. In an intervju, some years ago, Mike said something about "possibly writing soem music that isn't hip" ... well, nothing could be more hip than writing this kind of powerful real music! What is more hip: e.g., the techno final of Millenium Bells or the Tempest? There are light-years in-between; whereas MB seems to be for children, Tempest is highly sofisticated.

Think about Harbinger for a while; isn't there a clear "Soviet sound", the climax with the horns, that non-typical (for Mike) melody played by the strings ... this is what makes it all work for me, that it is not about the TB theme actually, it is just there as a texture supporting more important (fresh) ideas. I certainly love this "russian" feel, which is apparent in track 9 just before it ends; a fantastic fanfar, not at all typical for Mike, something which shows his ability to change genre -- great! The main theme in Tempest/Musica Universalis, the long horns (with a reference to TB2) is another such great moment. First (at the 2-3 first listenings) I was a bit suspicius about this theme, it felt to ... simple, obvious (...?) ... but, no, Mike was right, this is exactly what MOTS required, this kind of worthy, eternally beutiful melody! Forget about TB2, this is its final form!

Back to the TB themes. Well, first of all, there are of course many other references to his other works, which is just fine to me as well (and not that particular obvious as well); interesting enough, there are very few motifs from his virgin 80-era (e.g., nothing from Five Miles Out, Crises, Discovery, three at that time very popular works) ., , it is TB2, TSODE, TL, ... Well, anyway, a very important feature here is that the MOTS references are technically advanced (think about the guitar part in track 11, great! ) and hand-played! Significant for me, all those of you who love Amarok will agree I guess.

I have already (earlier) expressed that I was surprised by how "slow" MOTS is (and I mean it as something good! ), Mike takes his time and explores all the details. But did I mention the INTELLIGENCE?!!

Run some pattern-recognition algorithm on the music score and you will get loads of hits on that lovely "increasing 5-note-"motif! Abreviated "I5N" from now on, it is just amazing how important this short motif is in MOTS. You hear it already in the beginning in Harbinger, after 14 seconds, supporting the TB theme. It is completely dominating in Shabda; the guitar plays it when it enters the scene, but it is everywhere in the flutes; it is everywhere in Harmonia Mundi, pay particularily attention to when the guitar plays for the first times, when it suddenly "goes up" high .. Yeah, exactly there (at 0.32) you have the I5N motif integrated into a fluent melody. Also, at 0.44 in the "silent" melody starting there... , This is what I am talking about, there is so much to discover!

I must confess that I doubt that Mike will write anything so fantastic as MOTS again. The reason is that he has doubtless been (implicitly or explicitly) thinking about this project for 34 years; all his favorite themes have floating around in his laboratory, and finally everything just matched perfectly, all of it!

But I agree with those who feel that he should give orchester music another shot. He has the ability if he wants to! I just hope he takes his time, the next orchestral work will have a hard time up against the 100% perfect all-time-masterpiece
MOTS. Just try to find new themes as strong as Shabda or the piano tune in Musica Universalis --- its gonna be really difficult.

I like to end this post with mentioning the fact that I find not one single part of MOTS as "boring" or just a "filler". Not even seconds. ALL of it great!
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fzklangwelt Offline




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Posted: July 12 2008, 08:13

By the way: "TheMann", 100% consent

In my opinion there are perhaps 4 albums among the oldfield opus that stand out in a way of artistical consequence: Incantations,The Killing Fields, Amarok and Music Of The Spheres.
They all persent an inner unity by compositional means. Especially in MOTS he developes and evolves the themes in a, for him, unique way. Often critics, including David Bedford, pointed out Oldfield's missing ability of developing themes.
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TheMann Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 05:39

Today, I got my hands on "Changeling"! And it is so pleasing to read Mikes final message, p.253:

(a) "From now on, my music is not going to be cool, it's not going to be hip or sexy".

(b) "it's going to be hand-played[...]"

( c )  "[...]and mathematical"

(d) "[...]it 's going to be as complicated as I feel it needs to be"

(e) "I am not going to care if anybody likes it or buys it"

GREAT MIKE!!! BEST THING YOU EVER SAID!!!!

Let me comment on those statements. First of all, I understand what Mike means with (a); however, I think that MusicOfTheSpheres is 10000000000000 times sexier and hipper than anything else released in the post-Amarok period! Simply because there is so much musical substance this time [there is some great substance in works like TB2, TSODE, etc as well, but even these works have lots of fillers; not to mention some of the other works with whales sounds, guitar-saxophones, and pre-defined CASIO drum loops. MOTS on the other hand is 100% filled with originality].

Anyway, (a) is great news; just make the music you like Mike, and it is going to be good stuff!

About (b), what can I say ... Our dream comes through. This is an important feature with MOTS, which makes it stick out so much! E.g., I think that Mikes guitar playing on it is the most wonderful he ever did. I f-----g cry when I hear the guitar stuff on Tempest, Aurora, Harmonica Mundi and Music Universalis. Of course, all other instruments are excellently played as well, but these are the moments I love most of all. Note that Mike is not trying to play the guitar "cool" this time; with excellent result!!!

( c) Mathematical! YES! This is why I started to listen to you Mike in the first place, and why I don't care about many other popular instrumental artists like Vangelis [again, I respect you if you disagree here]. It is this mastery of sticking abstract structures together, as done in TB, Ommadawn, Incantations, and MOTS. In MOTS, it is really subtle at places, you have to look carefully for it to get it sometimes. MORE OF IT MIKE!!! This is what you do best of all. (Surprisingly enough Mike never really revealed any influence of Bach, the greatest mathematician in history if you ask me).

(d) Great! Personally, I think everything in the period 1996 - 2002 has been all too simple, and generally disapointing. E.g., I hated Guitars and MB. Guitars, surprisingly enough. I always loved his playing, except on this hasty failure ... All right, many will disagree with this, so calm down people. I just felt it was far from being up to Mikes normal standard. Not to mention, the overly simplistic material.

By the way, don't mix "simplistic" with "minimalistic". Mike is at places a true minimalist, and he does it very well. There is often increadible power in his more sparse themes. (Do I really need to support this with an example? It should be obvious).

(e). That's the spirit!! I wonder why he seemed to care so much about it in the past...

Anyway, all this make up to a very bright musical future. It might take quite some time until Mike releases anything new, but I think he should now let his ideas mature and avoid forcing anything.

TAKE YOUR TIME MIKE. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE NOW. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE WELL AWARE OF THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A TRUE GENIOUS.
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Dirk Star Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 07:53

[quote=TheMann,Aug. 14 2008, 10:39][/quote]
Quote
(a) "From now on, my music is not going to be cool, it's not going to be hip or sexy".


I can see what Mike is trying to say there but I`m not really sure I like the way it comes over.I would`nt particularly say that the music of Mike Oldfield has ever been any of those things listed above.Not in all my years as an avid Mike Oldfield fan anyway.Obviously it all depends on your own perspective of what constitutes "cool,hip and sexy".And I dare say my own translation of those qualities are probably as screwed up as anybody elses.At the same time though if he`d said "From now on all my music is going to be dull,boring and uninteresting"...Then fair play he`d certainly be making a clean break from all of the rest of his work which is`nt.As luck would have it though,that has`nt happened.At least not with MOTS anyway.

Quote
(b) "it's going to be hand-played[...]"


I can see a need for Mike wanting to get back to a more "organic" sound after all the computerised stuff certainly.But at the same time I would`nt be surprised if he was to return to it either.As long as Mike composes music from his heart and soul then I`d say that`s all that really matters to me.MOTS was composed on the computer after all.If it`s merely a question of "style" he`s worried about here then imo he`s bringing himself back to the whole "cool hip and sexy" thing again.It makes me wonder sometimes that he`s maybe more "hung up" with all of that stuff than I`d considered myself?

Quote
( c )  "[...]and mathematical"


Well I don`t really understand that one at all.Surely all music is mathematical? You know you could translate that any way you want to really.He may as well have said.."[...]and ambigous"..I suppose with the evidence on MOTS you could maybe say he wanted to return to themes that communicate with each other and overlap into one over-riding theme?Then again I could be a million miles away with that one?

Quote
(d) "[...]it 's going to be as complicated as I feel it needs to be"


Fair enough I can certainly relate to that one.There again it also depends on how hard he wants to be on himself as well?Only he himself will know deep down whether he could`ve taken certain pieces further or whether he was over elaborating at times.I dare say his opinion of certain pieces will probably fluctuate and change as well.I can imagine it`s a very tough one to call for him though.Especialy given the great body of work he`s already put out there.

Quote
(e) "I am not going to care if anybody likes it or buys it"


And so the first thing Mike does is make an album specificaly targeted at a "select" light classical market and promotes the hell out of it.Or at least in this country he did anyway.Also when asked about the success of the album i.e. "sales fugures" Mike was of course delighted.Something along the lines of "Number one album!?..Wow thought those days were over"..etc. So OK he`s hardly going to turn round and say "I could`nt give a toss mate either way"..But then there are probably very few mainstream artists that would.At this moment in time I can`t even think of one in fact.I`m not saying that Mike did`nt compose MOTS from the heart,or that he`s somehow comprimised his own integrity by releasing it.But to say that he does`nt care if anybody likes it or buys it,is imo a complete nonsense.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 09:56

Quote (Dirk Star @ Aug. 14 2008, 07:53)
Well I don`t really understand that one at all.Surely all music is mathematical?

Well, that's true but some music exhibits mathematical patterns more obviously than others. For example in Bach simple melodies can be followed or preceded by the exact mirror image of the sequence of notes, or even inverted. You don't get that sort of thing in, for example, Liszt's music.

I've got a sneaking feeling that Mike is going to move increasingly towards the "classical" forms - perhaps chamber music (eg a string quartet) but more likely devotional works, such as cantatas.
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moonchildhippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2008, 19:10

Quote (Dirk Star @ Aug. 14 2008, 11:53)
Quote (TheMann @ Aug. 14 2008, 10:39)

Quote
(a) "From now on, my music is not going to be cool, it's not going to be hip or sexy".


I can see what Mike is trying to say there but I`m not really sure I like the way it comes over.I would`nt particularly say that the music of Mike Oldfield has ever been any of those things listed above.Not in all my years as an avid Mike Oldfield fan anyway.Obviously it all depends on your own perspective of what constitutes "cool,hip and sexy".

Oh but I disagree Mick , Ommadawn, Tubular bells and Hergest Ridge are amongst the  hippest  and sexiest pieces of music I know. You've probably read my theory on the Ommagasm,  which is a most wonderful thing, well if you're in a loving relationship  as I am with my wonderful boyfriend   :cool:  :)  :D .

At his request once I played Crises at such a moment, despite me not liking Jon Anderson's voice.  I did set a challenge to Yes fans a few years ago to try and get me into Yes, but so far no one has taken up that challenge, that said one of the bands my boyfriend likes is Yes, so I've challenged him to try and get me into Yes. I do quite like "Wonderous Stories" but haven't progressed beyond that really.

BTW my avatar pic I took on  Hergest Ridge has dissapeared, vanished into thin air  most strange  :/


--------------
I'm going slightly mad,
It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad

If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come.


I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health


"Part time hippy"

I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS

BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!
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Dirk Star Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2008, 04:22

Quote (moonchildhippy @ Aug. 15 2008, 00:10)
Quote (Dirk Star @ Aug. 14 2008, 11:53)
Quote (TheMann @ Aug. 14 2008, 10:39)

Quote
(a) "From now on, my music is not going to be cool, it's not going to be hip or sexy".


I can see what Mike is trying to say there but I`m not really sure I like the way it comes over.I would`nt particularly say that the music of Mike Oldfield has ever been any of those things listed above.Not in all my years as an avid Mike Oldfield fan anyway.Obviously it all depends on your own perspective of what constitutes "cool,hip and sexy".

Oh but I disagree Mick , Ommadawn, Tubular bells and Hergest Ridge are amongst the  hippest  and sexiest pieces of music I know. You've probably read my theory on the Ommagasm,  which is a most wonderful thing, well if you're in a loving relationship  as I am with my wonderful boyfriend  

At his request once I played Crises at such a moment, despite me not liking Jon Anderson's voice.  I did set a challenge to Yes fans a few years ago to try and get me into Yes, but so far no one has taken up that challenge, that said one of the bands my boyfriend likes is Yes, so I've challenged him to try and get me into Yes. I do quite like "Wonderous Stories" but haven't progressed beyond that really.

BTW my avatar pic I took on  Hergest Ridge has dissapeared, vanished into thin air  most strange  :/

Ah but I did`nt become a Mike Oldfield fan until 1979 so that rules his whole "cool" period out of the arguement for me.I`m not really gonna` dispute  that we as Mike Oldfield fans probably do find Mike cool and sexy in our own different ways.(The Ommagasm theory is first rate btw    :D ).I was really only refering to the way he`s kind of percieved from a more outside/media perspective.Plus whenever Mike says something like that sometimes it makes me wonder.."So is he saying that when he made L&S he was trying to be Hip,Cool and Sexy"???..You know it makes me wonder what his whole studio set-up looked like at that time?Pictures of scantily clad women stuck up on the walls or something?He composed every piece whilst sitting in a vibrating chair and "shooting up" viagra??..Where as of course for MOTS he was obviously knocking a couple of quick ones out in the morning to make sure he was`nt gonna` get sidetracked from his whole "mathematical" serious train of thought.Coming soon..Ben Stiller in There`s Something About Mike.And don`t even get me started on the whole "hip" side of the equation.Because as much as I actualy like L&S it`s seriously about as hip as the word hip itself.Or a Ben Stiller movie.    :/

Don`t get me wrong I can see where Mike is coming from to an extent.I just wish he would`nt come out with this stuff sometimes because it kind of comes over that he`s ruling a part of himself out somehow.Almost self-denying if you like.Plus the number of times the guy changes his mind anyway.You know I don`t know if setting out some kind of musical manifesto in print is a good way to go for him?That book is`nt called Changeling for nothing that`s for sure.You could quite easily add to that list for instance...(f)..I`m going to write three long orchestral pieces (G) It`s going to be about Halloween???..

Mmmm?..In all honesty I don`t really know why reading that list there wound me up so much.I think I read way too much into these things sometimes I must admit.And anyway I like "hip,cool and sexy that`s half my bloody problem I guess..(Booo stick the naked chicks back on the wall Mike..Plug the chair back in)!   At the end of the day though I do like MOTS.And in a thread that`s supposed to be about a celebration of said album,I apologise if I`m putting too much of a downer on things here.Sadly for me however I think if Mike is to go further down a classical route with any possible future releases.Then there`s a fair to middling chance that at such future celebrations,shindigs and parties.I`ll probably be spending a lot of my time there mooching around in the kitchen.

Re your missing avatar pic Galadriel:I don`t know where you`ve got your image hosted or anything?But I know with stuff that I`ve uploaded online sometimes.I`ve usualy got to log into those accounts at least once or month or something or the images dissapear.It could just be that the site`s down at the moment as well?Sorry I can`t be more helpful.
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Brad O. Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2008, 01:52

I agree.  MOTS is Mike's best work ever!!!  I've been listening to it at least once a day for the past two months and I cannot get enough of it.  No other Mike Oldfield release has affected me as this one has.

What a treasure!

Brad O.
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Holger Offline




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Posted: Jan. 27 2012, 22:19

Quote (Brad O. @ Aug. 23 2008, 07:52)
I agree.  MOTS is Mike's best work ever!!!  I've been listening to it at least once a day for the past two months and I cannot get enough of it.  No other Mike Oldfield release has affected me as this one has.

What a treasure!

Brad O.

Wow. While I totally disagree, I love the fact that someone feels this way about it.  :D
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stpaul Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2012, 04:08

Quote (Brad O. @ Aug. 23 2008, 01:52)
I agree.  MOTS is Mike's best work ever!!!  I've been listening to it at least once a day for the past two months and I cannot get enough of it.  No other Mike Oldfield release has affected me as this one has.

What a treasure!

Brad O.

I totally agree with you. It's a very strong album. Sometimes a bit too pathetic, but a good and timeless composition. I was very surprised to listen to something like that after L&S
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Holger Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2012, 10:36

Quote (stpaul @ Jan. 28 2012, 10:08)
I totally agree with you. It's a very strong album. Sometimes a bit too pathetic, but a good and timeless composition. I was very surprised to listen to something like that after L&S

OK, I have to qualify what I said. I don't totally disagree; I also thought it was a huge step up from L&S. I just think it's far from being his best.
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Posted: July 09 2012, 05:11

I think four year on, with lot's of repeated listening, I think, like lot's of Oldfield album it has lot's of hidden depth, and it was great for Mike to make "His" classical music. And I really enjoy it, the only thing I don't really understand is what Lang Lang brought to it, yes he is a great pianist, but was it so difficult Mike could not have done it himself? Maybe not, but I also understand that this album was an ensemble piece, so, maybe it was fair Mike just played guitar.
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trcanberra Offline




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Posted: Aug. 03 2012, 00:22

Quote (qjamesfloyd @ July 09 2012, 05:11)
I think four year on, with lot's of repeated listening, I think, like lot's of Oldfield album it has lot's of hidden depth, and it was great for Mike to make "His" classical music. And I really enjoy it, the only thing I don't really understand is what Lang Lang brought to it, yes he is a great pianist, but was it so difficult Mike could not have done it himself? Maybe not, but I also understand that this album was an ensemble piece, so, maybe it was fair Mike just played guitar.

Been listening to it a bit of late and think it is ageing very well - a very nice addition to the collection.
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