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Olivier Group: Super Admins Posts: 1865 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: May 18 2012, 22:20 I hate when albums end with a tiny little stupid song: - Pink Floyd The Wall - Tubular Bells - Ommadawn - TSODE - Vangelis 1492 Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 19 2012, 02:33 I don't hate it but don't like it much either. Another obvious example is the Beatles "Abbey Road" (ending with "Her Majesty"). QE2 also ends with a not-so-remarkable song. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: May 21 2012, 19:06 @ Olivier: The Wall doesn't really end with "Outside the Wall" because it's circular, like Giambattista Vico's recursive history. The last track ends with Roger Waters saying "Isn't this where..." and the first track starts with Roger Waters saying "... we came in?" This means that the album itself is supposed to be a continuous loop, with no beginning and no end. However, to me, "Outside the Wall" is not really stupid. About TB and Omm., I always thought that Mike did the silly bits at the end to balance the seriousness (or the perceived over-seriousness) of the preceding music. @ lars: "Her Majesty" was supposed to be included within the long Side B medley, between "Mean Mister Mustard" and "Polythene Pam". The medley and the album were supposed to end with "The End" (d'oh! ). Then Macca didn't like the song, somebody cut it and stuck at the end. I have a "full version" of that song, from the RockBand game, where the song itself is actually concluded. The Alan Parsons Project's Stereotomy album ends with a short silly reprise of the title track. I consider it to be the worst APP album, were it not for "Limelight" which IMHO is a masterpiece. And then there's The Offspring's Splinter, from 2003, which ends with not one but two stupid songs in a row. "When You're In Prison", the final track, is very stupid even by Offspring standards. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: May 21 2012, 19:30 You could expand on this to include all those "secret" tracks on CD's. You know the ones - 17 minutes of silence then the song starts or 27 micro tracks of silence to skip and then the song. Take That, Robbie Williams, many others all guilty of this. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 22 2012, 16:21 Ugo, I've heard about "Her Majesty" being part of the "suite" too and I can see why it didn't fit! BTW the Beatles were also pioneers of "secret" last tracks. Sgt Pepper had a tiny bit of high-frequency noise at the end of the LP. Legend says John Lennon put it there because he wanted to annoy dogs (which he hated). -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: May 22 2012, 17:47 Quote (larstangmark @ May 22 2012, 22:21) Ugo, I've heard about "Her Majesty" being part of the "suite" too and I can see why it didn't fit! BTW the Beatles were also pioneers of "secret" last tracks. Sgt Pepper had a tiny bit of high-frequency noise at the end of the LP. Legend says John Lennon put it there because he wanted to annoy dogs (which he hated). Apparently John Lennon didn't like "Her Majesty" at all. He didn't like anything that Paul McCartney composed in an old-fashioned style, such as "When I'm 64" or "Honey Pie" - he called them "granny songs". John wanted "Her Majesty" off the medley, because it would have been placed between two songs of his. Paul respected John a lot. They fought tooth and nail, but they also loved each other like brothers. Also, as I said, Macca didn't like the way it turned out whitin the medley. Who am I to say why he didn't?? Sgt. Pepper also includes a "proper" hidden track... after the dog whistle, there are 10 seconds of random Beatle chat and laughter, cut and pasted together into a loop (which was supposed to be on the original vinyl album's runout groove, so meant to repeat infinitely); these vocals are, of course, totally meaningless. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 22 2012, 21:40 You can forgive the Beatles for Her Majesty because it wasn't supposed to be there at all. It ended up in the album by accident. Three Imaginary Boys by The Cure ends with a short, silly little instrumental that was probably stuck in there without Robert Smith's consent. Not that he liked the album anyway, but that little inclusion feels very strange coming off the heels of the title track. And who could forget U2's Boy? It ended with a few seconds from a demo of Fire, played somewhat in the distance. It sort of freaked me out when I heard it the first time -- it was like it just wasn't supposed to be there, and the echoey, distant sound creeped the hell out of me. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: May 23 2012, 06:28 I agree about TB (though I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate it, I just don't care for it much) and I guess Ommadawn is a matter of taste (I love it). But calling the awesome Polynesian chant at the end of TSODE a "tiny little stupid song" just because it is unlike the rest of the album is going too far IMO. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 23 2012, 08:50 Quote (Holger @ May 23 2012, 06:28) But calling the awesome Polynesian chant at the end of TSODE a "tiny little stupid song" just because it is unlike the rest of the album is going too far IMO. I agree. It doesn't even deserve being called anything. It's a... non thing. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 24 2012, 06:59 Then there's that enigmatic barely audible sound at the end of Dark Side of the Moon. Strings from some other project apparently.... -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 24 2012, 08:12 Quote (larstangmark @ May 24 2012, 06:59) Then there's that enigmatic barely audible sound at the end of Dark Side of the Moon. Strings from some other project apparently.... I always read that it's a portion of Ticket to Ride. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: May 24 2012, 17:28 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ May 24 2012, 14:12) I always read that it's a portion of Ticket to Ride. Yes, it is. George Martin was recording an album of Beatles orchestral cover versions (lounge-style) at Abbey Road at the time. The album never came out and the tapes were given to engineers to be wiped over with other recordings. Pink Floyd happened to record "Eclipse" on one of those tapes, which evidently was not wiped properly by laying the newer recording on top of the older one. Regarding the chant at the end of TSODE, well, Mike doesn't play on it (does he?) and he doesn't sing on it (does he? ), so I don't consider it to be a Mike Oldfield track. It's a sample he was toying with at the time and that just happened to end up on his album. It's the same as that old drinking song from Mongolia which Michael Cretu (a.k.a. Enigma) stole from two old people from Beijing, made "Return to Innocence" out of it, and got sued by the two elders as a result. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: May 25 2012, 05:37 Except that Mike credited the Tubuai choir on TSODE and no doubt got permission to use the sample first. It is a "Mike Oldfield track" insofar as it is fully incorporated into one of his works and serves a purpose there - to provide contrast to what came before. Hence the title "A New Beginning". Obviously Mike doesn't play or sing on it, but he purposefully chose it to be part of his work. Back to top

Cavalier (Lost Version) Group: Members Posts: 598 Joined: Nov. 2010 Posted: May 25 2012, 09:50 He enhances it a bit though, so he's playing or twiddling with something. I wouldn't say it was annoying, but in purchasing a reduced price copy of The X Files: The Album for some reason or another      I got a bit of a surprise when the tape sprang back to life with Chris Carter's summary of the show's mythology.  As near as I can remember, it happened at about the same time as it apparently does on CD - 10:13 after the last track finishes. -------------- "Who was that?" "That was Venger - the force of Evil!  I am Dungeon Master - your guide in the realm of Dungeons & Dragons!" Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 25 2012, 13:04 Speaking of Pink Floyd, "Alan's psychedelic breakfast" is indeed a stupid song at the end of an album. It's not exactly tiny though.... -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 25 2012, 13:09 I don't think it's stupid, but it's extremely underwhelming and disappointing. When I think of "psychedelic breakfast", I do not think of "mellow acoustic tunes with a few sound effects in between"; I think of something much closer to Amarok, in fact! -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: May 25 2012, 17:46 @ Holger: I didn't remember the credit given to the choir - the text in the booklet for TSODE is hard to read (especially the original one). Anyway, does this mean that, theoretically speaking, I could take a folk song from Abruzzo (a traditional song, i.e. no writer), have a local choir sing it, then take a sample from it and put it on an album of mine which is otherwise made up exclusively of my own compositions, and pass it off as a track by Ugo Coppola? Very honestly, this sounds a bit strange to me. Mind you, it's not that I don't like "A New Beginning" - I do, I think it is a very nice way to end the album. But I just don't agree with you about it being "a Mike Oldfield track" only because he added a bit of echo (or whatever) to a pre-existing song. Mr. Cretu did something more with the two Beijing elders, as he added lots of keys and synths and beats and vocals to their a cappella bits - then he forgot to credit them, but that's his own story. Also, to me "A New Beginning" doesn't express the idea in its title, i.e. something starting anew - it just sounds completely extraneous to the rest of the album. @ lars & Sir M.: that Pink Floyd sound collage (because that's what it is) was initially a joke aimed at a roadie of theirs whose name was Alan Styles... do you remember the two guys on the back of the Ummagumma sleeve? He's the one on the left. PF recorded him while he was actually preparing and then eating (devouring?) his breakfast and talking while he did that, because they loved the way he talked. Then they cut & pasted Alan's tapes and made a sort of conceptual piece out of them. I'm not sure whether they were too cool or too stupid to place it at the end of Atom Heart Mother, most of which is IMHO musically stupid anyway - but definitely not bad. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 25 2012, 19:43 Quote (Ugo @ May 25 2012, 17:46) @ Holger: I didn't remember the credit given to the choir - the text in the booklet for TSODE is hard to read (especially the original one). Anyway, does this mean that, theoretically speaking, I could take a folk song from Abruzzo (a traditional song, i.e. no writer), have a local choir sing it, then take a sample from it and put it on an album of mine which is otherwise made up exclusively of my own compositions, and pass it off as a track by Ugo Coppola? Very honestly, this sounds a bit strange to me. Well, it's strange, but you're basically correct. In fact, artists have been doing that for centuries, in fact, in many mediums; Tarantino's films do it all the time, many modern plays recontextualise old texts, and the examples in music are plentiful. You just gotta think that music is much more than the notes or sounds you're hearing: the intention, the implicit meanings, the context, the purpose, and many things like that are part of a musical piece. So, by taking someone else's "notes" and turning them into something else, you are, in fact, making them "your own". Strange, but true. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Olivier Group: Super Admins Posts: 1865 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: May 25 2012, 22:41 There is also Handel's sarabande he doesn't give credit for in Women of Ireland. I don't approve, his track is made of 2 covers, and he credits the whole thing as one trad. soup he arranged, very disrespectful. I would be the ghost of Handel past, I'd do something about it. Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 26 2012, 05:12 I think Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast is stupid but good. Silly is perhaps a better word? The acoustic parts reminds me of Syd Barrett's second album. Really peaceful, pastoral and melancholy. it's a bit underwhelming for sure. The rest of the album consists of carefully crafted and composed material. It would have fitted better on some of the soundtracks they did (Zabriskie Point). -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

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