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Topic: This is the real mike oldfield< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Vrbomber Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2020, 15:34

:) who thinks the same?
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2020, 17:31

Even though Amarok was recorded 17 years after TB it has a similar quality in the way the sounds are used and the sort-of English folk tunes. It also sounds contemporary for the nineties showing good ideas are timeless.. Probably his finest work.
RTO is also good entertainment for perhaps these reasons.


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2020, 17:45

Are you saying Amarok quotes folk tunes, or just draws on the genre?
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2020, 18:03

A bit of both. There's the influence of Bert Jansch on the guitars and also the folk rock thumping bass of Steeleye Span and Lindisfarne. Oldfield also arranges tunes in a style akin  to Vaughan Williams  and Delius. They both took folk tunes and arranged them for orchestras, using all the instruments to full effect with artful arrangements. There is also a section of Amorak that quotes Delius, not that I can remember which bit off the top of my head. I'll have to go and investigate.

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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2020, 20:15

Quote (Ommagest @ Feb. 25 2020, 18:03)
A bit of both. There's the influence of Bert Jansch on the guitars and also the folk rock thumping bass of Steeleye Span and Lindisfarne. Oldfield also arranges tunes in a style akin  to Vaughan Williams  and Delius. They both took folk tunes and arranged them for orchestras, using all the instruments to full effect with artful arrangements. There is also a section of Amorak that quotes Delius, not that I can remember which bit off the top of my head. I'll have to go and investigate.

Can you provide a name of a few of the folk songs? Someone on this forum once told me that Mike's "Sunset" and also the final music from Maestro are based on a melody from Sibelius's 2nd symphony, but I can't really see any resemblance. To me it's a bit like saying chalk is like cheese, because they're both made out of atoms.

As for Delius, if Mike can turn that dull as ditchwater composer's output into something good my respect for Mike goes even higher! About the only thing I like about Delius is the title of some of his pieces, eg, "A Song of the High Hills", "Sea Drift", "Songs of Sunset", "The Stagger to the Paradise Garden", etc.

I don't think much of Vaughan Williams' songs either, although it was funny that he was forced into setting Blake's awful poem "Little Lamb", which he correctly labelled as that "beastly little lamb"  :laugh:

I like some of Schubert's songs, also Beethoven's "Mailied" and a few others. And his setting of Burns' "Once More I Hail Thee" is little known but great. In the unlikely event you don't know it, (or "Mailied"), here are links to them (I own the particular LP that this version of Mailied is from). Enjoy the slooshy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....14&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu7-tGz3WQ :D
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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Feb. 26 2020, 02:05

I think for me Amarok is the summit of Mike's musical career, he poured so much of his talent into it, I have never heard anything quiet like it, the playing and production is amazing too. It is such a shame that it is barely known outside Mike's fans and Prog fans, although I understand not everyone will want to to sit and listen to 1 track for an hour!!! and that is even more less likely in the streaming age we are now in.

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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Feb. 28 2020, 13:52

Vaughan William's   Folksong revival in the 20th century

Delius used American folk music   Delius in America

MO writes tunes and arranges them, there's some of his scribbled ideas in the artwork of Amarok.


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 28 2020, 18:03

Yes, but what folk songs - if any - did Mike Oldfield arrange in Amarok?

I'm not surprised Vaughan Williams and Delius had to turn to folk songs - they were certainly bereft of original inspiration.
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Feb. 29 2020, 10:34

Not directly, it wasn't a well worded post. "Sort-of "as in similar style. More the folky motifs he writes and develops as per the aforementioned sleeve art.

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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 29 2020, 20:33

Ah, message received A OK.  :cool:
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Mar. 07 2020, 17:36

Quote (nightspore @ Feb. 28 2020, 18:03)
Yes, but what folk songs - if any - did Mike Oldfield arrange in Amarok?

I'm not surprised Vaughan Williams and Delius had to turn to folk songs - they were certainly bereft of original inspiration.

Vaughn Williams wrote some of the most moving, inspired and majestic music I have ever heard. I don't care what he got his inspiration from.
I love Mike's music, but he's not a very original composer. After he shed the youthful idiosyncriasies of his 70s work, his compositions are beyond generic (just listen to Music of the Spheres).
If Mike would have concentrated on refining his compositions (instead of trying to write and record with as little effort as possible), perhaps he would have been a composer of Vaughn Williams magnitude. But Mike obviously gave up trying in 1978.


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 07 2020, 18:52

Quote (larstangmark @ Mar. 07 2020, 17:36)
Quote (nightspore @ Feb. 28 2020, 18:03)
Yes, but what folk songs - if any - did Mike Oldfield arrange in Amarok?

I'm not surprised Vaughan Williams and Delius had to turn to folk songs - they were certainly bereft of original inspiration.

Vaughn Williams wrote some of the most moving, inspired and majestic music I have ever heard. I don't care what he got his inspiration from.
I love Mike's music, but he's not a very original composer. After he shed the youthful idiosyncriasies of his 70s work, his compositions are beyond generic (just listen to Music of the Spheres).
If Mike would have concentrated on refining his compositions (instead of trying to write and record with as little effort as possible), perhaps he would have been a composer of Vaughn Williams magnitude. But Mike obviously gave up trying in 1978.

Ha ha your name isn't Russell Mitchell, is it?  :laugh:
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Mar. 08 2020, 11:48

Quote (larstangmark @ Mar. 07 2020, 22:36)
Vaughn Williams wrote some of the most moving, inspired and majestic music I have ever heard. I don't care what he got his inspiration from.
I love Mike's music, but he's not a very original composer. After he shed the youthful idiosyncriasies of his 70s work, his compositions are beyond generic (just listen to Music of the Spheres).
If Mike would have concentrated on refining his compositions (instead of trying to write and record with as little effort as possible), perhaps he would have been a composer of Vaughn Williams magnitude. But Mike obviously gave up trying in 1978.

Vaughan Williams and Delius along with Bax and Holst took inspiration from their surroundings perhaps trying to preserve something being overrun by industry and its bastard offspring, mechanised warfare. Most composers up to that point went into academia where to follow the rules of classical music as laid down by Bach, Beethoven etc was the way to learn how to compose. I understand impressionism (think Debussy) also inspired Delius and VW.
As for Oldfield giving up in 1978, I'm not so sure as he did produce Amarok. However hearing the Windchimes and Music from the Balcony  made me grab a sequencer and think "I could do this".  Before then, I'd just do my best to play along with the records!  I thought Music of the Speres and Mont St.Michel were very plain and undeveloped.


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 08 2020, 22:29

Vaughan Williams, Holst, Delius... very different composers of course. There are moments of Vaughan Williams I like: the opening of his 8th symphony, for example. His first symphony makes all the moves that one would expect of a piece titled "A Sea Symphony" and I suppose it's fairly listenable. I like the Jupiter movement of Holst's "The Planets", but for me the rest of the suite falls flat. To me Mike has more melodic inspiration in his little finger than all these composer put together, and he wisely avoids the silliness of "sonata form" as well. Enough said.
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2020, 07:17

Quote (nightspore @ Mar. 09 2020, 03:29)
To me Mike ...... avoids the silliness of "sonata form" as well.


Incantations


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omgmo Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2020, 11:12

Quote (qjamesfloyd @ Feb. 26 2020, 02:05)
I think for me Amarok is the summit of Mike's musical career

For me, it is very hard to say that Amarok is the summit of Mike's career, since there has been Hergest Ridge, for example.

It was a very nice surprise, though. Don't get me wrong, I also like it.
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2020, 11:26

Hergest Ridge (original 74 mix) is the best sounding as far as the choice of instruments, it all blends together well. When I had a go at writing some music a la Oldfield, the Hergest Ridge list of instruments was the template. Plus a vibraphone, that's side 4 of Incantations for you.

How would have Amarok sounded had it had been done in 1976 with the the tech available then?


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2020, 19:03

Quote (Ommagest @ Mar. 09 2020, 07:17)
Quote (nightspore @ Mar. 09 2020, 03:29)
To me Mike ...... avoids the silliness of "sonata form" as well.


Incantations

Ah yes... cough cough... well well... Incantations... ewww and doh and eat my shorts etc. Mike is entitled to one mistake! I remember discussing this with Pete Renolds at Uni and he confirmed that it is not a good album. :laugh:
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Ommagest Offline




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Posted: Mar. 10 2020, 11:24

I won't mention the other times he may have gone full-on sonata!

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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 10 2020, 19:09

I'm pretty sure I know some of these. The point is that it's a pleasant challenge to write in fixed forms - I sometimes write sonnets. But there's a difference between writing in a fixed format for fun and feeling that such a way is "right" or "in accordance with correct musical theory", which is how many composers (with the exception of rebels like Liszt and Wagner) proceed. Poor old Tchaikovsky was berated for not getting formal considerations right - he should have abandoned them altogether. Similarly Dvorak's 4th symphony is criticised for being "repetitive" and "trying the listener's patience" - but as Mr Oldfield points out, if something is worth repeating, why not repeat it? And when I listen to Beethoven's 7th I think what a twit he was for adhering to sonata form and letting us hear that wonderful first movement melody exactly once before he starts fidgeting with it and spoiling it.
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