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Topic: Concerto Schizophrenia II: "Buses", The official release< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sir Mustapha Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 2802
Joined: April 2003
Posted: June 10 2004, 16:54

Yes, I know the title sounds pompous, but in the end, it's more of a mockery than anything else.

Finally released, this is a 75-minute-long half-instrumental piece that took roughly one year to finish. It's available at http://ferniecanto.imdanet.com/ - just scroll down and you'll see it. Although it is one track only, I have divided it in four files to make it less of a nightmare to upload/download.

I have once posted a demo of the album in here, and that segment appears at the very beginning of part 1.2. Christina Nordlander wrote the Latin lyrics, and also influenced the whole making of the album. The poem talks about the mythological character Penelope, who weaves a fabric during the day and tears it down in the night - and at the beginning of part 2.2, we have exactly that: a musical fabric being woven, each instrument at a time, and then being mercilessly torn to shreds. The album, as unlikely as this sounds, has a whole meaning. It represents a mind in struggle, in conflict with itself, trying to put itself back into place. It may or may not succeed, in the end.

I don't know if the music will turn out to be great or crap, but this is an album that I had to make. It is less of an artistic statement than it is a personal realisation. It is very personal and very important to me, and I'm making it available for you to listen and say what you think. Also: it is very weird in parts, and I won't be accepting that as a complaint. :laugh: I mean, I always say that people shouldn't take me too seriously, so don't take my album too seriously, either. ;)


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Jammer Offline




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Posted: June 10 2004, 17:04

Cool! I saw my name up there on your website. I will give it a thorough listen when I am free. When I get round to it I'll give my comments

Funnily enough I gave your 18 minute midi file demo a listen and imagined how it would sound very good played with real instruments. This might be the next step in the project

Whatever it may sound like, it certainly is the most ambitious thing you've written. That in itself is very promising!
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Jammer Offline




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Posted: June 13 2004, 09:47

OK, well since the files are too big for most members to download I'll give my comments

There are certainly some good parts to it. I can hear that you took great trouble over working on it. Your influences from experimental works come through, though sometimes I think these sections aren't executed too well. In Amarok, for instance Mike didn't go overboard with 'mad bits' - even the less accessible parts of Amarok had a good melody under them. In the case of MFTB odd-sounding parts were contrasted with more pleasant sections, but given the context of this work it was slightly different

As for thematic material. The first part has the most variety. The others are slightly more minimal, but in a good way! They don't feel long and drawn out like Incantations does at points. Perhaps there could have been a few more themes

Then there's the old chesnut of the midi sounds. I think I've said before what I feel about these. One day, perhaps you'll have the means to record real instruments and that'll sound good. I suggested to you before that a sample CD of drum loops would be a good start to help the drum parts sound better. Mike does it all the time!
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olracUK Offline




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Posted: June 13 2004, 11:13

As a non-musician, i listen to these compositions for melody and emotion. I have to leave it to the likes of Jammer and the other musicians for the technical stuff.

I've only had a chance to listen to 1:yellow, but I like it. It does come across as a bit like a game background, but that is just the recording method and limited soundscape. The tune holds my attention and moves along well.

I'm not too keen on the sudden change at 8:00 to 8:30 though, nor the spoken section at the end.

Put it this way - I'm still humming the main theme :cool:


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The answer is 42 - but what is the question?
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Sir Mustapha Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 2802
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Posted: June 14 2004, 15:57

Quote (olracUK @ June 13 2004, 11:13)
As a non-musician, i listen to these compositions for melody and emotion. I have to leave it to the likes of Jammer and the other musicians for the technical stuff.

Any comments will be welcome (in theory)! Just as I wish for some constructive critique from fellow musicians, I also would like to know what non-musicians think and feel about the music. Melody, well, I always worry about melody. For this piece, I wanted to be sure that there would be solid themes, and at every moment, at least some kind of melodic idea going on. I hope I have succeeded - I feel the Yellow Girl motif is one of my best accomplishments, both because it sounds good and because I have finally managed to accomplish something I have been trying to do for a few years. I hope you know who the yellow girl is, because I don't think I could have made it any more clear without making it blatant.

Emotion... Well, "Buses" represents a state of mind, and all emotions that go with it. The different sections of the piece portray fear, isolation, joy, nostalgia, madness, love, and probably other things. If the listener captures those feelings, one of my goals have been achieved. But... does the music sound emotional? For one, I think people should understand that "Buses" is, primarily, a machine speaking. A machine is a machine - you can push the limits of Artificial Intelligence as far as you want, but it isn't Intelligent yet. Much less emotional. How do you make a machine sound emotional? I could try to dissect the elements that could put emotions in the notes, but frankly, I think that's a horribly pretentious thing to do. What are these elements? Variations on the expression of the notes? Notes that stay longer and shorter than expected? I could make a huge, extensive effort to make every track sound more human, but I didn't want to. I feel that is false and unhonest. It's a machine, and a machine it is. But as long as the music makes clear that there is someone behind the machine, it will be enough for me.

It's not that I don't want to make "Buses" a really human-sounding piece, but I just can't do it right now. Making a machine sound like a human is the first step in replacing humans with machines, and when the machines take over, there ain't no place for rock 'n' roll.

So let the machine speak!...

... Oh, and thanks for the comments, everyone. :D


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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ktran Offline




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Posted: June 15 2004, 01:01

Mr. Canto,

I've had a chance to listen to a good chunk of your instrumental, and you've definitely some creative work here. The main theme is a very catchy one, and I quite like the beginning of 2.1 (the synthy part -- though I'm not too sure of the odd timing in the guitar chords after this). I'm also a fan of some of the bands you like (Rush, U2, Pink Floyd), and I can see where you've drawn some influences.

Of course, you know before I even write it that my main beef will be with presentation of the piece with its midi sounds and instrumentation. Yes, I fully understand you haven't the resources to pull this sort of thing off with real instruments, and frankly, given that it took you a year to do this in midi, I don't think I could recreate that in a year myself given my resources.

It comes down to semantics and usage, I think, but it's kind of weird to hear you talk about your work in terms of "albums" and "releases." Certainly, they're creative pieces of music, but I feel that this sort of wording makes it sound like you've "finished" them from a recording and production viewpoint, when there could be so much work done to untap the vast potential that's in there. I'd prefer to view them as the "sheet music" for musicians to play. As it is, the quality of the recording suffers not only because of the sounds used. Expression and dynamics are very important things in music. Without them, the notes and sounds just don't carry the same sort of impact. As you say, it's a machine-thing, and frankly, it becomes a bit mind-numbing to listen to after a while.

What I can suggest, since you don't seem to have a full ensemble of musicians at your beck and call, is that you get yourself a hold of a velocity-sensitive midi keyboard controller, and play along with your music, put into it YOUR feelings and expressions. It might take some time, but it's your music, and it deserves that sort of investment. When you're playing it, you might also notice that things you thought worked on "paper" (or computer screen) don't quite add up when played by hand. Also be mindful of how certain instruments are played. For instance, guitar chords are strummed, you can't play them like block chords on a keyboard. There's a slight delay between each string being sounded. Very small, but it makes a huge difference. The same sort of thing applies when I play my guitar synth: I can't "strum" a piano chord. If I'm playing a violin patch, I have to be mindful of how long I can sustain a note realistically, etc etc etc. Don't worry if things aren't perfectly quantised; it adds character (unless you're bad like me sometimes and totally play out of time!;)

I think you've quite a bit of talent, and I'm envious of you in some ways. You've done some good work here, and you should feel proud of yourself for that, but there's a long way to go, and much more fun to be had on the way! All the best.


rgds,


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Khoa Tran
www.suspendedseconds.ca
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Yuval Offline




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Joined: Nov. 2003
Posted: June 15 2004, 06:52

Sir.M - congratulations!
Starting downloading...
seems to me its gonna take a while till u get a decent replay for that impressive work u've done. I like to listen alot before I feel I can actually talk about it.
But I promise it will arrive.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




Group: Musicians
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Joined: April 2003
Posted: June 15 2004, 07:26

More comments! Thanks you all.

Of course there is always the fantasy in the back of my mind to hear this music performed for real, and of course I'd take full advantage of that opportunity. Some of the music might need reworking, but it will be worth it. But since that might take a pretty long time, I will have to be content with these minor "album" "releases". :) Yeah, I use those terms is a very light-hearted way, only because it adds to the fun. And because I'm very oriented at "albums" and not "songs" or things. It's my style, really, not only with making music but with listening, too.

It is neat that you got to comment about making the instruments play "realistically". I think "Buses" represented a bit of a breakthrough in that area, because I was careful to make the playing believable - don't know it if is, but I tried. ;) Whenever there is a guitar strumming, there is always a delay between every note (very annoying to make, but it's worth it), except when I want the "block chord" effect. Even if a very small delay is desirable, MIDI doesn't allow that, and it sounds fake - at least to my ears.

I certainly feel a little proud for doing the work, but I feel more proud for receiving comments from people who understand more about the business. I read every word, and it means a lot. I intend to keep on growing and learning, and your comments will definitely help. And I really look forwards to see your comments, Yuval. :) Thanks again!


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Music, the ancient language... Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 407
Joined: Jan. 2003
Posted: June 16 2004, 02:34

Hmm... how can I say this...

It's like making a sculpture out of a pile of garbage: it can be a cool thing to make, you can even put some arty things in it, and maybe, maybe you get to make a point with it. But after all: it's just garbage you're working with.

And yes, you've put the flexibility that arises from this sort of simple sounding kind of midi music to creative use. But personally I don't think that you can expect more than personal satisfaction from this.

As ktran says: there's a whole world of listenable music waiting for you. This 'album' proves creativity won't be the problem.


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Read everything I write at own risk.
I cannot be held responsible  for
depressions and/or suicide attempts
of any kind, caused by reading my posts.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 2802
Joined: April 2003
Posted: June 16 2004, 08:02

My next project was to make a cover of Metal Machine Music on 4 CD's to be listened to simultaneously, but maybe you're right... I should move on to more listenable territory.

(don't mind me, I'm just joking, as always - insert smiley here)

And hey, I do know what listenable music sounds like. It sounds like Captain Beefheart and The Residents. And I'll be trying to expand the horizons of sound when I get rich and famous. But for now, I can only expand the horizons of my own imagination. I never had my head brimming and exploding with ideas before, and if the music I'm making now is creative, I think I'm doing my best. Until I get my book published on red velvet pages with golden lettering, I hope the story is good.

Please, don't think I'm bothered by the negative comments, mind you! I'm sure that the groups of MIDI worshipping freaks would flame me for using drastically distorted guitars and faux-kalimbas, but that's how life goes. :D


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Satyagraha Offline




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Posts: 103
Joined: June 2003
Posted: June 16 2004, 08:24

I've listened very briefly to your composition (no time), and I haven't a doubt that you're indeed a talented maker of music. I have to say, though, that I do agree on the oldschool computer-game view on the sound of your work.

But there's a cheap way, you know. Loads of free (and good) soundfonts are out there to be downloaded. If you have a Soundblaster Live card (or even the older AWE 64), you can use them. Those cards cost next to nothing these days. All of a sudden, your songs will be very much worth listening to. Yes, it is that simple. I utilize a lot of soundfonts in my stuff, because I don't own a plethora of instruments or the mikes to properly record them. No-one's ever said that my compositions sound artificial. We're all getting fooled by MIDI these days. Those lush, big Hollywood full orchestras in films are seldom anything but cleverly programmed MIDI soundfonts these days. Check out these demos and get stunned.

So keep up the very good work, my friend. And get them fonts. I recommend
Hammersound for a start. The best of luck.


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Byrði betri berrat maðr brautu at en sé mannvit mikit
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10 replies since June 10 2004, 16:54 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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