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Topic: BBC4 Prog Rock Brittania< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Matt Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 07:11

Considering how little Mike appeared in the programme I was interested that his name was mentioned fairly prominently in the advertising of the it. Maybe they think Mike is still a "big name" which is good...

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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 10:06

Mike Oldfield is a progressive musician. He does rock music that goes beyond genre conventions in order to create new forms of (popular) music. As much as I loathe that unique mix of electronic christmas carol and etno kitsch that he's been making the last 16 years, I can't deny that it's something he's developing and that progresses over time.

Prog rock shouldn't be confused with symphonic rock, which was a type of music that was considered progressive in the 70s.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 10:58

Quote (larstangmark @ Jan. 06 2009, 16:06)
Prog rock shouldn't be confused with symphonic rock, which was a type of music that was considered progressive in the 70s.

To me, "symphonic rock" and "progressive rock" have always sounded like two definitions of the same genre. If I remember correctly, bands like Yes and Genesis were labelled as "symphonic rock" in the Seventies. Then that label disappeared and was replaced with the "progressive rock" one. At least that's how I see it. :) As I said above, Genesis are still considered prog.


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simmo2005 Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 11:34

I liked the way the VO announced that Tubular Bells had sold over 50 Million copies worldwide during the Mike sequence of the doco :)
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 16:39

Quote (Ugo @ Jan. 06 2009, 10:58)
Quote (larstangmark @ Jan. 06 2009, 16:06)
Prog rock shouldn't be confused with symphonic rock, which was a type of music that was considered progressive in the 70s.

To me, "symphonic rock" and "progressive rock" have always sounded like two definitions of the same genre. If I remember correctly, bands like Yes and Genesis were labelled as "symphonic rock" in the Seventies. Then that label disappeared and was replaced with the "progressive rock" one. At least that's how I see it. :) As I said above, Genesis are still considered prog.

What is progessive changes over time, depending on what the progress looks like at the time. A band that tries to sound like Yes did in 72 is by no means progressive. More like regressive.
I think a lot of what was considered "new wave" in the 80s should qualify as progressive. Likewise the more far-out reaches of Goth, Grunge and Freak Folk and every other genre that went a little beyond what was considered normal at the time.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 17:25

I kind-of agree with you about the fairly literal meaning you give to the term "progressive". But the fact that "progressive rock" is a label that's still used right now to identify a musical genre, to which several bands still belong (I've heard it being used for Rush, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, Spock's Beard...), maybe implies that the term itself should not be taken too literally. :D

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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Jan. 07 2009, 13:34

Also it was nice to see that even the most unlikely looking group's and indivdual musicians were all really after as much female companionship as they could get there hand's on.

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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Jan. 07 2009, 14:16

Quote (The Big BellEnd @ Jan. 07 2009, 13:34)
Also it was nice to see that even the most unlikely looking group's and indivdual musicians were all really after as much female companionship as they could get there hand's on.

The big difference from today being that they had to know their 13/8 before they could get any!  :laugh:
Seriously, for us who haven't seen it, was who were the unlikely sexual agressors? Gnidrolog? The Gentle Giant brothers? Jon from Jade Warrior?


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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Jan. 07 2009, 15:18

I think personally Jethro Tull have all the Un's completely covered,
Along with unlistenable and unwatchable I would have to say as well, the most unlikely category of sex god's.
If they were or indeed are, we must of course then add Unbelievable, all in all I would say Jethro Tull have corenered the market in Un, who know's? they might even be credited with inventing it.


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Marky Offline




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Posted: Jan. 08 2009, 14:47

Fairly unfortunate for them...

I don't know about other people's 'definitions' of prog rock, for me, I associate it with music that is attempting more technically or in structure than rock music did before - rock and roll or heavy rock. I think it raised the bar on sophistication and ambition but some of the exponents put technique ahead of tunefulness (one or two admitted they thought of everything except the audience) and this is where Mike differs, as he always played music that was not experimenting for the sake of it, but which had something lyrical or listenable at its core. That's why some of the bands vanished, I think, because they could not truly adapt beyond their virtuosity and bands can be pondrous beasts whereas individuals can move on if they have a mind to do so. Mike switched very quickly later, when he wanted to.

Anyway, bugger all of that what I really wanted to say was that I thought Mr O had a very reasonable share of the interview time - as much as most others. If Mike were a man who threw out words rapidly instead of considering everything so carefully he'd had said twice as much in the same time!!

He did well - and he came out well - the mistakes actually are good in that they 'big him up' a bit, and they seemed respectful of him and when he failed to perform live the narrator - Spinal Tap's Nigel Planer! - said prog had lost its champion. And from there, so the narrative went, those who overindulged themselves such as ELP made prog look ridiculous and its bad name was secured. Mike, at the time, got tarred with the brush meant for others rather than one he deserved.

Anyway, the man did good.

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Inkanta Offline




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Posted: Jan. 08 2009, 18:27

Quote (Ugo @ Jan. 06 2009, 17:25)
I kind-of agree with you about the fairly literal meaning you give to the term "progressive". But the fact that "progressive rock" is a label that's still used right now to identify a musical genre, to which several bands still belong (I've heard it being used for Rush, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, Spock's Beard...), maybe implies that the term itself should not be taken too literally. :D

Indeed, there are Internet progressive rock radio stations (for example, www.morow.com out of Paris) and until finding them, I had no clue prog rock continued to be an identified genre. My god--seems to me, Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree and Blackfield) is another musical genius! Carptree, Id Guinness, IQ, Galahad, Moongarden, RPWL, Pain of Salvation...goes on and on and on. It has been so much fun discovering them!. And Dream Theater--yum!

The program didn't discuss any of the neo-prog bands, I understand. What are your thoughts about that?


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Marky Offline




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Posted: Jan. 08 2009, 20:32

why should it - it wasn't about them? Unless you count Queen and Genesis who arguably are.
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Inkanta Offline




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Posted: Jan. 08 2009, 22:42

In that the initial description was "the life and decline of progressive music, the bands involved, and their musical style" I suppose a mention of its continuation, morphing, etc. wouldn't have fit. Maybe rather than "decline" they could have had a segment on where it is at today? Progressive rock today is extremely wide-ranging. Groups like The Watch may sound a bit regressive (like Peter Gabriel era Genesis but they do it sooo well!;), but on the other hand, there are bands/artists like Dream Theater, Slyvan, Galahad, Id Guinness, Steven Wilson, who, well, aren't. Good point, Larstangmark about progressive/regressive.

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ommadawn,ah!ooh! Offline




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Posted: Jan. 09 2009, 04:28

In my dotage I increasingly reach the conclsion that many
Musical styles-for want of a better moniker-are often of their
time.Try the following:You go see your chosen Prog band of the Seventies at a still-treading-the-boards/reunion gig.They
play your fave raves note-perfect,the vocals not-so but hey...Your ears tell you YOU ARE THERE,your artistic sensibilities (and if you are reading this you've by-golly got em)tell you NOT QUITE THE SAME THOUGH,IS IT?
The effect is even more profound for Punk.
So what if your time machine could bring your Prog/Punk
heroes to that same gig from their heyday.I contend that the
preceeding still applies.Sorry to all today's fly-the-genre-flag Bands but You Can't Go Home Again...
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Blue Dolphin Offline




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Posted: Jan. 09 2009, 07:49

Quote (Pat Gleeson @ Jan. 06 2009, 12:44)
Quote (Blue Dolphin @ Jan. 04 2009, 09:49)
But I'm still confused: the other three parts which are being transmitted on January 3rd, 6th and 7th: are these other parts of the documentry or are they the same?

The documentary was in three parts, 30 minutes approx. devoted to each part.

So just one programme. Apart from Mike's input, the only really interesting part was the old existing b/w skiing film footage used to promote 'Tubular Bells' that the BBC and Virgin edited.

Since Mike wasn't available for any promo, this film acted as the promo for TB in programmes such as 'The Old Grey Whistle Test'.

Thanks Pat. I was confused because there were 4 broadcasts, but the other three turned out to be rewinds. I've watched the documentry and I was very pleased with it.

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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Jan. 09 2009, 08:55

@ Marky: sorry, but I agree with Sir Mustapha here about Queen being absolutely not prog. They never were, they still aren't - especially now that they're aiming almost towards a 'softened' sort of metal. :D Genesis are most definitely prog - you can see and hear it in everything they do, even in their poppiest stuff.

@ Inkanta: I'm not very familiar with new prog bands - the three I quoted above are the only ones I really know, and they're all very, very, very good IMHO. And the best thing about them is that they have nothing at all to do with the Seventies. :)

@ ommadawn,ah!ooh!: I'm not a big fan of live music or of concerts in general - I'm more fond of studio-recorded music, and a gig (any gig) manages to hold my interest as long as it has a strong visual element and it is strongly associated with the music (I don't like visuals for their own sake). I think Genesis are still pretty good from this point of view: I have their When in Rome 2007 DVD and it's excellent.


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moonchildhippy Offline




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Posted: Jan. 09 2009, 10:14

Quote (Ugo @ Jan. 09 2009, 12:55)
@ Marky: sorry, but I agree with Sir Mustapha here about Queen being absolutely not prog. They never were, they still aren't - especially now that they're aiming almost towards a 'softened' sort of metal. :D Genesis are most definitely prog - you can see and hear it in everything they do, even in their poppiest stuff.

@ Inkanta: I'm not very familiar with new prog bands - the three I quoted above are the only ones I really know, and they're all very, very, very good IMHO. And the best thing about them is that they have nothing at all to do with the Seventies. :)

@ ommadawn,ah!ooh!: I'm not a big fan of live music or of concerts in general - I'm more fond of studio-recorded music, and a gig (any gig) manages to hold my interest as long as it has a strong visual element and it is strongly associated with the music (I don't like visuals for their own sake). I think Genesis are still pretty good from this point of view: I have their When in Rome 2007 DVD and it's excellent.

Are Queen Prog, well yes and no, but Queen could carry off both Glam and Prog at the same time, all the idea of Freddie Mercury.  Liten to "Doing Alright" and "Father To Son" "The Prophet's Song" I would say that they are pure prog, or at least have strong Prog Rock elements.
I know that Queen could play various styles of music, Crazy Little Thing Called Love- Rockabilly, FIght From The Inside/Sheer Heart Attack -Punk, Another One Bites The Dust- Disco/Soul as was many of the tracks off the Hot Space album.  Also classical/operatic style vocals as in Bohemian Rhapsody, also the Spanish giutar section of Innuendo, as played by Steve Howe and Somebody To Love,  Jazz-Bring Back That Leroy Brown, and also Metal - Hammer To Fall, Dead On Time, Stone Cold Crazy.

Incidentally SHA (the song) was written back in the very  early days of Queen and so predates Punk by some 4 years or more.

Are Queen Prog, yes but maybe not in some senses put are in others, it's virtually impossible to categorise Queen into anything other than Queen.  Maybe roots of  Punk started in the late 60's with bands such as The Edgar Broughton Band and The Pink Fairies, well they had the attitude.
I think it's a pity that Prog appeared to get too big for it's own boots, with elaborate stage shows, and that is the memory many people have of prog, but ELP wrote some beautiful short songs with meaning.

I think maybe Punk Glam  and Prog have more in common than people would admit. If I remember Dave Vanian and Rat Scabies of The Damned are prog fans. If Grunge is a development of Punk I remember Kurt Cobain siting King Crimson's "Red" as one of his favourite albums.


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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: Jan. 15 2009, 03:45

If we are debating whether Queen are or rather were prog then i'd have to agree with Moonchildhippy.The early stuff really did have some prog moments.Most of at least the first side of Queen 2 (my favourite Queen album)is very prog.Father to Son is what i'd call prog.And come to think of it side 2 as well.Ogre Battle is classic stuff and yet never mentioned.Then later on The Prophets song has all the hallmarks of prog.
 It's a very broad spectrum.And very hard to pinpoint what prog actually is as a genre.Jazz,Metal,folk and say blues all have very definate identities.The point of prog was to take as many different styles as possible and throw them togather with a healthy dose of vituosity and ambition and see what comes up.It did start to over reach itself abd become displays of just how good the players were but for a time it was really good.One thing that bugged me was that bands like Gong weren't really mentioned.If that's not prog i don't know what is!


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Tubularman Offline




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Posted: Jan. 15 2009, 07:58

nice to see him in studio... I hope something new and great will be released soon!!

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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Jan. 15 2009, 12:14

I'm with the Caveman here, QueenII an absolute barnstormer of an album, love it to bit's.

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